They've lost to the dunmer. But again my point stands, there's no evidence that nords defeat elves without magic.

That depends on the magic, I imagine. They have an Elfbane axe - which I guess implies that through their conviction they can imbue weapons.

And imagine if they linked themselves to the atronarch birthstone?

Yes, in the past, as it is now, stormcloaks didn't acknowledge magic. And at the past they have many nords warrior that can use the thu'um, right now only a handful can use it and even then, they still lost to the dunmer.

The dunmer had three demigods powered by the heart of an actual god. There was never really any chance there.

Except restoration. Its the only magic that isnt frawn upon by nords and is even respected.

And basically thats really all the magic they need to know to be on good footing against the elves.

Also I put battle prowness and warlust above sheer numbers. The empire gave away a portion of their best fighters. The other ones for melee is in skyrim. Plus I look at history and I think skyrim could fend for itselves if no one accepts their alliences. Wuulf pretty much kick the elves ass with 500 companions and also skyrim single handedly neat the first empire. Lets not forget they also beat 2 different countrys invaders during the emporer impersonation period.

Like I said battle lust, battle exp, and pure thrill of battle goes along way against superior numbers. Its been proven quite a bit before and also again of stormcloaks win against a better equiped and better man military.

What? We don't have any evidence that any Thuumists fought against the Dunmer. Still, it likely helped that the Dunmer had three demi gods. And if the dunmer are so great as you say, why didn't they strike back and take Skyrim? The answer is likely my next point:

Skyrim is really hard to invade because of all of the mountains - and the Nords know their lands intimately while the Altmer and Dunmer don't.

Who has ever sucessfully invaded skyrim before? Also I wouldnt call the nords skirmiahes against the dunmer actual wars, just skirmishes. Except mayne the battle of red mountain but thats got some very unique circumstances.

They fight against the dunmer, the founder of the greybeards found the way of the voice because the thu'mist lost aganst the dunmer. But I admit that this can't be used as an argument if the dunmer has 3 demigods and the heart of Lorkhan.


Yes, because the 500 companions has the Wuurthrad which is elfbane, mind you enchanted by magic. While magic has spells that negate physical attacks

Small good shields do against me in game.

No one is bad. The laws of such are only dictated by one's viewpoint, so can be corrupted or changed through enough conviction.

Skyrim is in turmoil. A country's reserves goes to fuel the war economy. Religious discrepancies swear to draw the common man apart.
Which ever side that accomplishes it's goal only ever garners scorched land upon hatred. Evolution needs to occur in order of repair.

In the end, both sides have recovered and their territory gained. The two sides both achieve the same wish, from different perspectives.
When people argue of the differences between these sides, they are only ever looking at the semantics. To win or to lose through will.

This discussion is repetitively useless. For in the end, Alduin has caused a dragon break to occur. Which will end in both Stormcloak & Imperial merging.

well there was atleast one dunmer emperor or was it a empores not entirely sure but there was definently a dunmer in the ruleing position of Tamriel

It was a dunmer empress, and she was EXTREMELY successful as an empress.

EDIT: It was Empress Katariah.

I disagree with that. My character is an imperial. Just because cyrodiil is cosmopolitan type society dosnt make them weak. Being more educated, wordly, and frankly having a better sense of politics and general class dosnt make you weak.

A few? Mate, argonians, khajiit and dark elves are barely even allowed into Stormcloak controlled cities. Though I agree they aren't as extreme as the Dominion, they're still blatantly racist.


I don't think that the Stormcloaks as a whole are a racist group but in any instance of war real or fictional there will be soldiers who feal a certain hatred towards the enemy and even in some cases there entire race

Your character was weak before crossing borders into Skyrim.

And your character is also the Dragonborn.

Same here. It's a mistake to think that just because Hammerfell and Skyrim have harsher climates their men are stronger. The warriors among them are trained in battle and strategy through the Legion, so they have strong military minds as well as battle prowess.

Plus, Cyrodiil likely has far more mages then either of those two nations because they hate magic so much.

They would need magic to make up for their tiny frames.

At least they have it. And realize its potential. Not everything is about brute strength.

I don't think you're grasping that time and again, Nords've proved that they don't need magic.

I doubt a little Imperial Penitus could handle a Nord woman.

There are mages and alchemists in every Nord hold.

I played both sides and personally didn't like the stormcloaks because they were so racist.. Then again, I guess most of the nords were:P

When was that? Only time I can think of that they wouldn't have had any magic or allies that used magic was long ago fighting the Falmer. And Nords respected the uses of magic properly back then, you find that out when you go to Sovengarde.
Depends on the Penitus and the Nord woman in question. And I hope you aren't insinuating that women are supposedley weaker, nothing in the base stats says that.

There are alchemists and no more than 1 court wizard per hold. Even the College has only a few Nords.

I was making a joke... Har Har.

Am I just older than everyone else or are my jokes impossible to understand?

Welcome to low fantasy. There is no good or bad, only shades of grey. Everyone has their good and bad sides to them, are both justified and damnable. This isn't the tale of heroes and evil you see in the main quest - no, this is one of war. Dirty, gritty, bloody, civil war. Neither side is 'in the right', and both have reasons to hate them.

Instead of looking for a right or wrong, look for what your character would choose. For example:

My Altmer wants to be part of the Thalmor - and that means Talos Worship must be punished. Sided with Imperials to take down the Talos Worshipers.
My Bosmer is part of the thieve's guild, and joined the Imperials to get her most valuable customer to be the Jarl, in thanks for continued patronage.
My Orsimer did not take too kindly to being put to the axe. She assassinated the Imperials, and helped the Stormcloaks gain power out of spite.
My Redguard came from Hammerfell in support of her Skyrim brothers and sisters. After what the Aldmeri and Empire did to her homeland, she'd gladly lend her axe to others in trouble.
My Imperial is a supplier for the Imperials. There was some confusion at first, sure, but no merchant will turn down a great source of revenue... nor the publicity for helping to quell a rebellion back at home.
My Nord returned to Skyrim to help her brothers and sisters. She agrees with the Stormcloaks and their cause, and is an avid worshiper of Talos.

And those are my six characters - one for each guild, a merchant, and my actual dragonborn run. And that's how they view the war - it's more of a personal level on the characters themselves. Personally, I'd side with the Stormcloaks. Sure, there's some problems to deal with, but we can work on that post-war. Besides, that'll be something that takes generations to change, not something you can do overnight. After all... children are oh-so-easily indoctrinated into new ideas. The biggotry can quite literally be bred out of Skyrim.

This youngin' got it, and had a good chuckle.