Stormcloaks are bad? : V - Skyrim

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:12 am

Not just him, plenty of Nords being escorted by Imperial soldiers in the wilderness (obviously to their execution). They tried to execute me simply for stumbling into a Stormcloak ambush by accident. And if you think the Imperials wouldn't be predujiced towards citizens who openly supported the Stormcloak cause then you're mad.

No, I agree that the empire is prejudiced to those that support the stormcloaks, but what'd you expect? They are at war. While stormcloaks are prejudiced against all other races no matter if they support the empire or not.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:27 pm

Not just him, plenty of Nords being escorted by Imperial soldiers in the wilderness (obviously to their execution). They tried to execute me simply for stumbling into a Stormcloak ambush by accident. And if you think the Imperials wouldn't be predujiced towards citizens who openly supported the Stormcloak cause then you're mad.

The Nords being escorted CHOSE to side with the Stormcloaks it was on their heads(literally, and figuratively). As for our PC, well.. Nobodies perfect.

If you weren't "lucky" enough to be born a Nord in Skyrim you're gonna be subjugated, and kicked around by Stormcloaks. That's really all there is too it.

Skyrim for the Nords my ass.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:36 am

No, I agree that the empire is prejudiced to to those that support the stormcloaks, but what'd you expect? They are at war. While stormcloaks are prejudiced against all other races no matter ih they support the empire or not.

^ This. And, pretty sure you'd execute someone who would kill you or any of your friends on sight.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:51 am

Hi! TheEclipse09, what gives?

The Nords being escorted CHOSE to side with the Stormcloaks it was on their heads(literally, and figuratively). As for our PC, well.. Nobodies perfect.

If you weren't "lucky" enough to be born a Nord in Skyrim you're gonna be subjugated, and kicked around by Stormcloaks. That's really all there is too it.

Skyrim for the Nords my ass.

Good point. But look at it as a 2 phase operation. First one kicks the Empire out. Then we deal with those among the Stormcloaks who act in a racist fashion. If that means overthrowing Ulfric, so be it.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:20 am

The Empire and Stormcloaks are grey factions, it all comes down to point of view and personal preference. To me the majority of the Stormcloaks grievances are legitimate, but I see their leaders are being opportunistic and manipulation of those grievances to raise their stations. The Empire on the other hand is being blamed for suffering the disadvantages of losing a war and making a few bad choices. Most of it is unfair blame to me, but some of it is legitimate. Overall i'd say neither are good or bad guys, although I seldom have anything good to say about the Stormcloaks and it's rare for me to say anything even nice about Ulfric.

Indeed, it is a very grey situation with no right answer.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:52 pm

No, I agree that the empire is prejudiced to those that support the stormcloaks, but what'd you expect? They are at war. While stormcloaks are prejudiced against all other races no matter if they support the empire or not.

But that's not the case at all. Not every Stormcloak is racist, like I said there's xenophobes in both factions. Plenty of reasonable Stormcloaks in the game, the owner of the general store in Falkreath to name but one.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:41 am

But that's not the case at all. Not every Stormcloak is racist, like I said there's xenophobes in both factions. Plenty of reasonable Stormcloaks in the game, the owner of the general store in Falkreath to name but one.

Right, but the leader is racist, which just makes it that much worse. If Ulfric says no argonians or khajiit in cities, then that will be done.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:03 pm

I really like what the Stormcloaks symbolize, but as a character I dislike Ulfric.
He's just plain racist, and he seems powerhorny in a way..
But still, I hate the idea of a Empire ruling everything as well, so its a tough one...
I agree that factionwise, the only evil one is the Thalmor, since they are the one having a problem with Talos in the first place..

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:01 am

Hold on now, Isn't Genral Tullius a condescending ignorant pratt as well who basically [censored] all over Nord (and probably any non-Imperial) culture and society at the beginning of the CW quest ??

There's a reason Argonians aren't allowed into the city, even Brunwulf Free-Winter doesn't let them in, for their own safety. Khajiit caravans are not allowed in any city in Skyrim, including cities allied with the Empire.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:29 am

But that's not the case at all. Not every Stormcloak is racist, like I said there's xenophobes in both factions. Plenty of reasonable Stormcloaks in the game, the owner of the general store in Falkreath to name but one.

Of course not all of stormcloaks are racist, I actually like Ralof.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:26 pm

Right, but the leader is racist, which just makes it that much worse. If Ulfric says no argonians or khajiit in cities, then that will be done.

Actually, even the Imperial Holds keep the Khajiit out. Not sure why, but that is the case. As for the Argonians I am not sure what to think about it. There is one source in the game that gives any view of it at all, and even if the Empire wins the Civil War they stay out of the city. I would like to se more sources on this before I proclaim Ulfric a racist.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:37 pm

since they are the one having a problem with Talos in the first place..

Well to be fair, when Talos was still alive he was kind of a [censored].

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:36 pm

Actually, even the Imperial Holds keep the Khajiit out. Not sure why, but that is the case. As for the Argonians I am not sure what to think about it. There is one source in the game that gives any view of it at all, and even if the Empire wins the Civil War they stay out of the city. I would like to se more sources on this before I proclaim Ulfric a racist.

It's something to do with moon sugar and skooma I believe. An attempt to halt it's trade in Skyrim, as well as the general perceptions that Khajiit are all thieves.

And like I said the Argonians are kept out of Windhelm for their own protection. It's like segragation, it's not desirable but it's necessary at the current moment or Argonian blood would be washing the streets of Windhelm. That's not Ulfrics fault, that's just due to racial tension in this particular part of Skyrim. It existed long before he came to power, the Dunmer were even driven out of Winterhold by the native Nords a while back.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:28 am

Hold on now, Isn't Genral Tullius a condescending ignorant pratt as well who basically [censored] all over Nord (and probably any non-Imperial) culture and society at the beginning of the CW quest ??

There's a reason Argonians aren't allowed into the city, even Brunwulf Free-Winter doesn't let them in, for their own safety. Khajiit caravans are not allowed in any city in Skyrim, including cities allied with the Empire.

Brunwulf tries to let them in, but there are complications. He works on it, while Ulfric just makes them stay out because he doesn't like the beastraces.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:50 am

Brunwulf tries to let them in, but there are complications. He works on it, while Ulfric just makes them stay out because he doesn't like the beastraces.

As I refered to earlier there is only one source that claims he is the one who keeps them out of the city and no source that states he hates beastraces. There are some who proclaim him a racist, but at the same time we should take that with a grain of salt since I haven't seen anyone without a reason to smear Ulfrics name calling him one.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:21 pm

Ulfric is one greedy bastard

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:53 am

Brunwulf tries to let them in, but there are complications. He works on it, while Ulfric just makes them stay out because he doesn't like the beastraces.

^This and I'm not talking about them anyway I'm talking about those dunmers.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:38 am

As I refered to earlier there is only one source that claims he is the one who keeps them out of the city and no source that states he hates beastraces. There are some who proclaim him a racist, but at the same time we should take that with a grain of salt since I haven't seen anyone without a reason to smear Ulfrics name calling him one.

It's truly only an assumption, but if you kick someone out of your city you obviously hate them, or they've wronged you in some way.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:17 am

^This and I'm not talking about them anyway I'm talking about those dunmers.

Oh you mean the Dunmer who were given an entire portion of the city to reside in ? That Skyrim welcomed and accepted (coldly perhaps, but Nords aren't renowned for their hospitality towards outsiders) ? And who repay this act of kindness with contempt and dissatisfaction. People like you won't be happy until the Nords of Skyrim give the Dunmer the clothes off their back, their manor houses that their families have toiled away for generations to obtain.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:38 pm

Oh you mean the Dunmer who were given an entire portion of the city to reside in ? That Skyrim welcomed and accepted ? And who repay this act of kindness with contempt and dissatisfaction. People like you won't be happy until the Nords of Skyrim give the Dunmer the clothes off their back, their manor houses that their families have toiled away for generations to obtain.

Uh, it wasn't given to them, and it's the poor district. "Welcomed and accepted"? They're treated like less than dirt.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:45 pm

Oh you mean the Dunmer who were given an entire portion of the city to reside in ? That Skyrim welcomed and accepted ? And who repay this act of kindness with contempt and dissatisfaction. People like you won't be happy until the Nords of Skyrim give the Dunmer the clothes off their back, their manor houses that their families have toiled away for generations to obtain.

Dude their "portion" of the city is nothing but a slum. All the trash from the Nordic part of the city flows down the Dunmer area.

And you're asking for them to be "Thankful"?

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:17 am

Right, the gatekeeper right? I agree that execution was a bit extreme but at least they had valid reason, because the gatekeeper sides with the enemy. Whereas that Imperial alchemist and those dunmers was discriminated withoud a shred of proof that they supports the empire.

Are you talking about the grey quarter? Go upstairs in the new gnisis corner club. There're imperial banners, a book, and some imperial armor. There's also some book written by dunmer that speaks about how the dunmer want to take Windhelm from the nords.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:31 am

Oh you mean the Dunmer who were given an entire portion of the city to reside in ? That Skyrim welcomed and accepted (coldly perhaps, but Nords aren't renowned for their hospitality towards outsiders) ? And who repay this act of kindness with contempt and dissatisfaction. People like you won't be happy until the Nords of Skyrim give the Dunmer the clothes off their back, their manor houses that their families have toiled away for generations to obtain.

Oh alright, good point. I see what you mean. I never think of it that way before.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:45 pm

Uh, it wasn't given to them, and it's the poor district. "Welcomed and accepted"? They're treated like less than dirt.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Decree_of_Monument

This is why Ulfric do not use his resources on the Dunmer. He is upholding his father's fathers end of the Decree on Monument.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:54 pm

Oh alright, good point. I see what you mean. I never think of it that way before.

Read my reply to him, you shouldn't think of it that way.

Unless you're being sarcastic.