"Whet-Fang sodality of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Black_Marsh, who use magicka to keep captives catatonic and harvest from them the red nectar." Those vampires sound interesting. I don't trust beth to do them justice though. If they ever wanted to try vampires from Black Marsh.

I'm saying that in our universe (as in the one where you're reading this), there is an obvious retcon of lore. Sure, the Volkihar may now have been doing this longer than the Order, but pre-Dawnguard, this didn't sound like their schtick. It's like if DC Comics had Killer Croc show up dressed as a clown, and claim that he was the one that killed Jason Todd, crippled Barbara Gordon, twisted Harleen Quinzel into the psychotic Harley Quinn, and that the Joker we've read about for decades just threw pies at people. Sure the canon may now say that's what's happened, but it's still an obvious retcon and copy/paste of one character's MO and accomplishments and putting them on a totally different character, and is very annoying.

Besides, I'm not surprised they copy/pasted the Order's tactics to the Volkihar. They probably decided to do that when they were copy/pasting everything else about the vampires from Oblivion into Skyrim.

they would probably only have the skyrim vampires in blackmarsh.

That would svck so much.

And the Skyrim vampires are Cyrodiil vampires already.

Well yes its a pretty known fact that Bethesda does this alot, but going back to the topic it would mean that sybille stentor doesn't necessarily have to be from the order which was my original point

yep.
i can totally see beth making all the vampires in future games extremely similar.
which is sad,beth lacks in creativity.

They most definitely do.

After reading more lore on vamps. I've got to say wow. So much potential. Especially on Whet-Fangs, Glenmoril Wyrd, and the Order.

Edit: The vampires from Valenwood Sound pretty neat. Especially the Yekef and Telboth. Anybody know of any vampires in Elsweyr or Hammerfell or did bethesda not give them any?

You guys know I normally agree with you but I can't here. Let me explain why. Some of you seem to believe that only the Cyrodiilic vampires blend into society, likely from the book Immortal Blood. Some say their ability to blend in in-game, breaks lore. Regarding vampire lords breaking lore. Consider this: vampires in the world of Nirn are shrouded in myth, folklore, and half truths. The majority of npcs in oblivion don't think vampires can EVER see the sunlight. In the book "the locked room" the author apperently believes that vampires pass out once the sun rises, only to awaken when it sets. So you see, there's a lot of falsehoods and misconceptions and simple unknowns about vampires. Whose to say that volkihar blending in was just largely unknown ane scarcely written about. They seem to be very clever and powerful and likely hid this ability, only revealing themselves as vampires in their monstrous form. The Cyrodiilic vampires aren't the only ones who can take human form. If you're well versed in the lore you'd know that some vampire tribes are shapeshifters / bodysnatchers and take the form of children they feed on, only to live in that person's family, waiting for a moment to strike. Long story short, it's easy to find these guys a place in TES lore.

Now, keeping that in mind, we have Sybille. Dont get me wrong, I DONT like her appearance, but I dont think she's a Cyrodiilic vamp, nor intended to be. We know that the volkihar have spies in cities, and we know that they have their own political structure. Is it really hard to believe that someone from that background wouldn't hide within a skyrim court?

Vampires in general shouldn't have been so obvious when they're "blending in". Blending in is the whole point. If it were just orange eyes it would be fine: something that's a hint to vampire hunters but not solid proof for the public. But the glowing eyes are a dead giveaway. I can't suspend my disbelief and pretend that no one notices that. Even fangs can be hard to see sometimes if you focus on not opening your mouth too much, not allowing more than a passing glimpse of them, but glowing orange eyes are unavoidably noticeable as long as your eyes are open.

I'm pretty sure you guys will still disagree with me which is fine, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents.

Finally someone that see this whole situation as i do

You can get a xbox 360 controller for windows, download xpadder (the previous, free version works perfectly) and use it to have the console experience on PC.

Source? I'm doing this right now in my Skyrim playthrough. I find the keyboard controls bad for a game like Skyrim and feel it's more natural with a controller.

This whole situation with the Volkihar is bugging me because the Volkihar should not be political in the slightest. That is the Order's forte, Bethesda should have made the new vampires the Order, and made the vanilla Skyrim vampires the real Volkihar from the book Immortal Blood. Or just make the vanilla Skyrim vampires like the real Volkihar, have Harkon and his group the pureblood vampires, and make certain NPCs, like Sybille, Alva, Movarth, and his coven, the Order vampires.

Your whole argument is refuted into a trash can if Morvarth Piquine has them glowing eyes, you know.

Why not if you look at the lore and now Harkon's history then you that the volkihar were involved in politics and that they are older than the empire so in any case the order copy the volkihar clan way of life

Thankfully someone agrees.

Not really because we know for a fact that Movarth is part of the cyrodilic strain but we have no proof that sybille stentor is part of the cyrodilic strain so no it wont be refuted into a trash can

I doubt they'd make a different vampire race for one character. It's like the fact that the akaviri are all imperials in oblivion.

It will be because Movarth Piquine is like you just said, part of the cyrodilic strain and if his eyes are glowing it indicates that he is one of the volkihar.

This is obviously a retcon.

So even if Sybille Stentor *was* of the cyrodillic strain, it doesn't matter now. The eyes have made her volkihar without much consent on her part.

But that is because Bethesda wanted to appeal to the kids and make the game easier, so in the process they threw their lore out of the window. The Order were the first to be political, and the Volkihar are supposed to be living under frozen lakes like barbaric vampires that feed on people that walk across the ice. Obviously, Bethesda could not do that because that is boring, but they could have given us vampires that had special ice abilities and what not, and that feed to stay stronger. They did not do this so they tried to make vampires better, and they pretty much said screw the lore lets make the Volkihar these awesome Vampire Lords that are political and powerful and nothing like the Volkihar that previous lore suggested.

"I told him what I could. There was but one tribe in Cyrodiil, a powerful clan who had ousted all other competitors, much like the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Imperial themselves had done. Their true name was unknown, lost in history, but they were experts at concealment. If they kept themselves well-fed, they were indistinguishable from living persons."

"To patron http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Clavicus_Vile, beacon o'er our affairs, we owe our successes and social stature. Our bond with Vile makes us unique among our kind, for his guidance steels our savage craving with reason and savvy. For him we live amidst mankind, and twist them to our will from offices of power."

Exactly, this is the Order, not the Volkihar, so Sybille should be a member or the Order, not the Volkihar. The Volkihar should not even be able to blend in like the do.

I doubt they'd make a different vampire race for one character. It's like the fact that the akaviri are all imperials in oblivion. Especially since Movarth is pretty much an easter egg anyway. There are so many other things wrong with him, such as his random race and sometimes gender (he has a male breton name). Having orange glowing eyes is the least of the plot holes here, but like I said the same thing happened with the akaviri at pale pass, only in this case it was an even smaller incident.

But see there's an issue right there: according to immortal blood they aren't the only ones able to blend in. I DO agree that volkihar should have had a DIFFERENT way of blending in, that I'll give you, but it's extremely possible that they could blend in as well but this just wasn't common knowledge throughout the empire.

Yes!
Exactly. I agree. They need a different way of blending in. Cyrodiilic vampires feed and then they can disguise themselves. The Valenwood clans can blend in if they stay away from candlelight, others have to devour children to take their form and replace them in the family. But Volkihar are just copies from the Cyrodiilic vampire, as dmel25 and others have said. They should of had a unique way to blend in, not the same method as the Cyrodiilic vampires.

Walking in the day is something some vampires have; vampires of Illac Bay(mentioned in the ingame book) and the Order and now the Volkihar.