Sybille stentor... vampire : V - Skyrim

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:40 pm

Yes!
Exactly. I agree. They need a different way of blending in. Cyrodiilic vampires feed and then they can disguise themselves. The Valenwood clans can blend in if they stay away from candlelight, others have to devour children to take their form and replace them in the family. But Volkihar are just copies from the Cyrodiilic vampire, as dmel25 and others have said. They should of had a unique way to blend in, not the same method as the Cyrodiilic vampires.

Walking in the day is something some vampires have; vampires of Illac Bay(mentioned in the ingame book) and the Order and now the Volkihar.

would love to do this,too bad beth would never let it happen.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:23 pm

I just hope Bethesda learns from this mistake they have made, and they decide to stick to the lore in the next game when it comes to vampires. I personally would like to see how the Glenmoril Wryd, or whatever their name is, blends in to society. I just think Bethesda will give them the same mechanics as we have now though.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:57 pm

Yes!
Exactly. I agree. They need a different way of blending in. Cyrodiilic vampires feed and then they can disguise themselves. The Valenwood clans can blend in if they stay away from candlelight, others have to devour children to take their form and replace them in the family. But Volkihar are just copies from the Cyrodiilic vampire, as dmel25 and others have said. They should of had a unique way to blend in, not the same method as the Cyrodiilic vampires.

Walking in the day is something some vampires have; vampires of Illac Bay(mentioned in the ingame book) and the Order and now the Volkihar.

Why lore wise the volkihar are way older than the order who's to say they didnt copy their strategies to blend in

But that is because Bethesda wanted to appeal to the kids and make the game easier, so in the process they threw their lore out of the window. The Order were the first to be political, and the Volkihar are supposed to be living under frozen lakes like barbaric vampires that feed on people that walk across the ice. Obviously, Bethesda could not do that because that is boring, but they could have given us vampires that had special ice abilities and what not, and that feed to stay stronger. They did not do this so they tried to make vampires better, and they pretty much said screw the lore lets make the Volkihar these awesome Vampire Lords that are political and powerful and nothing like the Volkihar that previous lore suggested.

Remember this the volkihar have been around since before the empire meaning that this could have been their primitive way to live.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:39 am

Why lore wise the volkihar are way older than the order who's to say they didnt copy their strategies to blend in
Remember this the volkihar have been around since before the empire meaning that this could have been their primitive way to live.

because there was never anything saying anything about the volkihar going to vile?

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:09 pm

because there was never anything saying anything about the volkihar going to vile?

And there was never anything saying that the order were the first vampires to infiltrated the courts and to blend in by feeding

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:23 am

Yes!
Exactly. I agree. They need a different way of blending in. Cyrodiilic vampires feed and then they can disguise themselves. The Valenwood clans can blend in if they stay away from candlelight, others have to devour children to take their form and replace them in the family. But Volkihar are just copies from the Cyrodiilic vampire, as dmel25 and others have said. They should of had a unique way to blend in, not the same method as the Cyrodiilic vampires.

Walking in the day is something some vampires have; vampires of Illac Bay(mentioned in the ingame book) and the Order and now the Volkihar.

I agree 100%. Glad we reached common ground haha.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:59 pm

would love to do this,too bad beth would never let it happen.

they DID write it...

but yeah I agree with most of the thoughts here that the Volkihar should have stuck to the lore presented in Immortal Blood. The vampire lords could've been a subset of one of the vampire strains, or a new one entirely if beth was dead-set on putting them in as is. I am also curious how some of the Valenwood clans work, some mentioned that candlelight revealed some of them, but little is mentioned of how others blend in. If TES: Valenwood happens I really hope they stick to the lore on it...

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:37 am

Why lore wise the volkihar are way older than the order who's to say they didnt copy their strategies to blend in
Remember this the volkihar have been around since before the empire meaning that this could have been their primitive way to live.

No no no. The only reason the Volkihar are now apparently older than the Order is because Bethesda decided to throw their lore out of the window, rather than stick to it from the beginning. The Order were the only known clan to manipulate mortals from political offices, but Bethesda decided with Dawnguard that they would make the Volkihar nothing like they we knew them from the book Immortal Blood, and be exactly what the Order should have been.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:30 am

Why lore wise the volkihar are way older than the order who's to say they didnt copy their strategies to blend in
Remember this the volkihar have been around since before the empire meaning that this could have been their primitive way to live.

First off, I don't even think the Volkihar can truly blend in now anyways. You can be stage 4 vampire and people still will not attack you. We're talking gameplay elements here, but many people in the game notice you are a vampire. Isran and the face sculpter. Even Serana said her outward appearance was obvious that she is a vampire. I don't think the Order copied them simply because they went to Vile. The Order are old as well, very old that their name was lost in history. The Volkihar still keep their names, apparently. Though I do agree that the Volkihar might be closer to Lamae considering she was the first.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:09 am

And there was never anything saying that the order were the first vampires to infiltrated the courts and to blend in by feeding

Likewise for the Volkihar.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:31 pm

And there was never anything saying that the order were the first vampires to infiltrated the courts and to blend in by feeding

I am pretty sure the book Immortal Blood says this, it says that the Volkihar live under frozen lakes, and the Cyrodiilic vampires, the Order, were the ones that infiltrated politics and manipulated mortals.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:09 am

Likewise for the Volkihar.

and to support this, we have evidence saying the order should be doing this, and other evidence saying the Volkihar are something entirely different

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:33 am

I doubt they'd make a different vampire race for one character. It's like the fact that the akaviri are all imperials in oblivion. Especially since Movarth is pretty much an easter egg anyway. There are so many other things wrong with him, such as his random race and sometimes gender (he has a male breton name). Having orange glowing eyes is the least of the plot holes here, but like I said the same thing happened with the akaviri at pale pass, only in this case it was an even smaller incident.

One character? there's more than that.

Hell, a lot of vampires in Skyrim exhibit The Order's traits and as Werewolf&Vampire said before me, the Clavicus Vile cult would be some.
As well, at least the akaviri warriors in Pale Pass could be excused due to the fact that they could be akaviri or transformed tsaesci, as I've
detailed once in a thread before. The volkihar are all over Skyrim, their subsequent transformation of what could be cyrodillic vampires, is odd.

Lastly, Movarth Piquine's is hardly an easter egg. An easter egg is like finding a sentient drunken troll drowned underneath a bridge,
leaving a note that no one will pay his toll, so he'll commit suicide. That references to the story of Billy Goat Gruff, not another ES game.
The quest that Movarth Piquine is involved in is actually a properly detailed quest within the game and not some hidden reference.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:44 pm

First off, I don't even think the Volkihar can truly blend in now anyways. You can be stage 4 vampire and people still will not attack you. We're talking gameplay elements here, but many people in the game notice you are a vampire. Isran and the face sculpter. Even Serana said her outward appearance was obvious that she is a vampire. I don't think the Order copied them simply because they went to Vile. The Order are old as well, very old that their name was lost in history. The Volkihar still keep their names, apparently. Though I do agree that the Volkihar might be closer to Lamae considering she was the first.

I know the order is old but not older than the Empire for starters

No no no. The only reason the Volkihar are now apparently older than the Order is because Bethesda decided to throw their lore out of the window, rather than stick to it from the beginning. The Order were the only known clan to manipulate mortals from political offices, but Bethesda decided with Dawnguard that they would make the Volkihar nothing like they we knew them from the book Immortal Blood, and be exactly what the Order should have been.

No no no. Before Dawnguard there was almost to no lore about the Volkihar, and if you listened to Garen Marethi you would know he was a member of one of the houses in morrowind and that after many years he decided to stop meddling with political affairs plus lore wise the order flourished in Cyrodil during the third era even if they were a little older than that

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:45 am

This all points to Bethesda not having any creativity, and using bad game design.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:10 am

I am pretty sure the book Immortal Blood says this, it says that the Volkihar live under frozen lakes, and the Cyrodiilic vampires, the Order, were the ones that infiltrated politics and manipulated mortals.

It does says that but if you read correctly the vampire hunter from the book was bitten by the pries t who i believe was a volkihar vampire who had gone without feeding for quite some time. So this means that the volkihar did blend into society

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:37 am

I know the order is old but not older than the Empire for starters
No no no. Before Dawnguard there was almost to no lore about the Volkihar, and if you listened to Garen Marethi you would know he was a member of one of the houses in morrowind and that after many years he decided to stop meddling with political affairs plus lore wise the order flourished in Cyrodil during the third era even if they were a little older than that

almost no lore is not the same as no lore, and what lore we did have was completely contrary to what was presented

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:22 am

I know the order is old but not older than the Empire for starters
No no no. Before Dawnguard there was almost to no lore about the Volkihar, and if you listened to Garen Marethi you would know he was a member of one of the houses in morrowind and that after many years he decided to stop meddling with political affairs plus lore wise the order flourished in Cyrodil during the third era even if they were a little older than that

Now that I think about it, I will agree with you that the Volkihar probably are older than the Order, but the Order is the only vampire clan that blends in with mortals, and manipulates them from high positions of office. The Volkihar we have now are not what they should be, Bethesda just changed them to make the gameplay more fun.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:04 am

It does says that but if you read correctly the vampire hunter from the book was bitten by the pries t who i believe was a volkihar vampire who had gone without feeding for quite some time. So this means that the volkihar did blend into society

That vampire was a Cyrodiil vampire.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:11 am

It does says that but if you read correctly the vampire hunter from the book was bitten by the pries t who i believe was a volkihar vampire who had gone without feeding for quite some time. So this means that the volkihar did blend into society

It was heavily implied he was a cyrodill vamp

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:16 am

It does says that but if you read correctly the vampire hunter from the book was bitten by the pries t who i believe was a volkihar vampire who had gone without feeding for quite some time. So this means that the volkihar did blend into society

No he was a Cyrodiilic vampire because he says he had gone 72 hours without feeding so Movarth could then tell he was a vampire so the priest attacked him and bit him. Movarth had fought the Volkihar before he returned to the priest.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:37 am

It actually wasn't really a secret. Some characters would hint that there was something wrong with her, or that her behavior was highly suspicious. You could even comment on how she's 80 years old (give or take some years) yet she still looks young. She even sends you off on a quest to kill vampires, and implies that your character would probably be dead because vampires are superior. The quest alone is clue enough that somethings not right with her since the vampires are out in a cave far away from Solitude, but vampires are killing people in Solitude. Chances are likely the vampires in the cave are not doing it, but the vampire(s) in Solitude are...

It's a secret to the general public, but I think everyone important in the Jarl's court knows what's really going on. :shrug:

not only that she also said that she raised high king torryg since he was a child too

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:26 am

I know the order is old but not older than the Empire for starters
No no no. Before Dawnguard there was almost to no lore about the Volkihar, and if you listened to Garen Marethi you would know he was a member of one of the houses in morrowind and that after many years he decided to stop meddling with political affairs plus lore wise the order flourished in Cyrodil during the third era even if they were a little older than that

That's just it. The Order are older than the Third Era, much older. Since Tiber Septim united Tamriel and Cyrodiil became the seat of an Empire, they infiltrated and took over the clans. Yeah, but how do you know Garen Marethi was a vampire when he worked for the Great Houses? Indoril, I believe. He could of went to Skyrim and got infected by the Volkihar. It doesn't mean he originated in Skyrim as a Volkihar. Clearly the vampiric tribes in Morrowind were the Quarra, Berne and Aundae.

The only way Bethesda can fix this crap is by either adding the Order and re-tweaking the vampires or just retcon it all and say "Cyrodiilic vampires and Volkihar comingled bloodlines and are now a single, unified clan."

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:11 am

Now that I think about it, I will agree with you that the Volkihar probably are older than the Order, but the Order is the only vampire clan that blends in with mortals, and manipulates them from high positions of office. The Volkihar we have now are not what they should be, Bethesda just changed them to make the gameplay more fun.

why were does it imply that the order are the only one who do this???

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:14 am

not only that she also said that she raised high king torryg since he was a child too

well be that as it may, she was also a mage, and as others have pointed out, it doesn't appear unusual for a mage to live a longer than expected lifespan, as implied by the archmage at winterhold, or possibly a few of the court mages. Long lived doesn't equal vamp, glowy eyes and the like do, and they're OBVIOUS