The dawnguard questline allows you to become a VL?! : V - Skyrim

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:28 am

It just doesn't make any sense.

Who cares if the Dawnguard accept you as a VL after you've finished the questline? I'd be more upset if they didn't.

Hell, Serana, the Vampire daughter of the antagonist, has just helped a group of Vampire slayers kill her own dad and save the world from an affect that could only have benifited her. If that doesn't prove to the Dawnguard that all Vampires aren't saddistic [censored]s, and that some can be genuinely good people, nothing will. If your character wants to become a VL after saving the world, then use those powers to hunt other Vampires, there's no reason for Isran to care.

Isran is a vampire hunter, of course he should care! Just because two vampires turn against another vampire means nothing, the whole purpose of the group is to destroy the vampire menace. Have you met Isran? His personality is so anti-vampire that him accepting you and serana as vampires is ridiculous.

Serana would still have to feed from the living (not in the game but she must do to survive in terms of lore), I wouldn't call her 'good'.

I just think the vampire lord option should only be available for the vampire questline and as soon as the dawnguard know you're a vampire they should hunt you (and serana) to the death.

This. Lets not forget none of the dawnguard npc's will speak to you as well until you get yourself cured honestly if I make a DG character I will never take that option cause to me it does not make much sense to become a vampire lord and be a part of a vampire hunting group lets not forget the previous dawnguard got ruined because they thought they could use vampirism to combat vampires.

They won't speak to you? They should slaughter you!

The option shouldn't even be there IMO, you chose your side of the war, deal with it.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:22 pm

Isran is a vampire hunter, of course he should care! Just because two vampires turn against another vampire means nothing, the whole purpose of the group is to destroy the vampire menace. Have you met Isran? His personality is so anti-vampire that him accepting you and serana as vampires is ridiculous.

Serana would still have to feed from the living (not in the game but she must do to survive in terms of lore), I wouldn't call her 'good'.

I just think the vampire lord option should only be available for the vampire questline and as soon as the dawnguard know you're a vampire they should hunt you (and serana) to the death.

1. Saved the world.

2. She's not killing anyone, she's not hurting anyone.

3. Saved. The World. Literally any argument you can make for the Dawnguard wanting to kill you due to being a Vampire after their questline is overridden by the fact that you helped them save the world from Vampires.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:18 pm

1. Saved the world.

2. She's not killing anyone, she's not hurting anyone.

3. Saved. The World. Literally any argument you can make for the Dawnguard wanting to kill you due to being a Vampire after their questline is overridden by the fact that you helped them save the world from Vampires.

She's a vampire, she's killed and fed on many.

You didn't really save the world, the perminently blocking of the sun would be the end for that clan of vamps, everyone would hunt them down from all across Tamriel and they'd quickly be killed.

Just because someone's done some 'good', their commitment to 'evil' (vampirism) isn't forgotten. If a hero of men slaughters children, the 'good' will be forgotten and the 'evil' act he committed will be what defines him.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:51 am

Did you kill Parthanax?

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:42 am

Vampire QL allows you to turn your spouse into a vampire. Do you get that chance with the DG? Other than that and RP reasons, I agree that DG is a bit more on the awesome side.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:21 pm

She's a vampire, she's killed and fed on many.

You didn't really save the world, the perminently blocking of the sun would be the end for that clan of vamps, everyone would hunt them down from all across Tamriel and they'd quickly be killed.

Just because someone's done some 'good', their commitment to 'evil' (vampirism) isn't forgotten. If a hero of men slaughters children, the 'good' will be forgotten and the 'evil' act he committed will be what defines him.

1. No evidence. I'm sure she's killed someone, but the Dovahkiin has a far higher kill count then she ever could.

2. No evidence. The only people that would know the Volkihar blocked out the sun would be the Dawnguard, and it's pretty doubtful they or any angry mob they could rile up could take down the entire clan. Even if they did, it doesn't dismiss the armageddon Tamriel would go through. Remember, the sun doesn't just keep Vampires at bay; It allows life to exist. Without the Sun, no food could be grown, all travel would go into lockdown mode, and eventually the world would go into a permanent state of deep winter.

3. A. First off, you're assuming Vamperism is inherently evil, which is untrue. There's no reason someone can't be a Vampire and a good person. Being a Vampire doesn't instantly make someone a monster.

B. What?! Are you serious? That's like, the opposite if how it works. Tons of heros did [censored] things and we remember them..... Well, as heros. The Spartans were effectively a group of slavers who specialized in [censored]-fu, but most people remember them as the group who saved the free world because they fought one awesome battle.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:49 pm

THE WHOlE point of this is so you can go back into the soul cairn and retrieve seranas mother when you kill harkon! Otherwise youd never be able to go back in. FFs.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:09 am

She's a vampire, she's killed and fed on many.

Not necessarily, even in lore, vampires do not have to kill to survive, similar to how you don't.

That said, the Dawnguard are zealots, you can't convince them how wrong they are because they're far too stubborn. Them not killing you is probably considered a massive act of courtesy in itself.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:49 pm

I think it's quite BS. There is no proper balance at all on choosing sides, the Dawnguard is obviously the clear winner, and Bethesda was quite bias towards them, it's BLATANTLY obvious. If it wasn't for Roleplaying, there would be absolutely NO reason to choose the Vampire side. I'll just quote what I posted on another thread, listing the perks/benefits/rewards of each side:

You guys are giving terrible examples, stop being so hard on him. This truely is an outrage.

Vampire Side Perks:

1) Vampire Lord
2) Blood Potions (Useless because nobody attacks at Stage 4 anymore.)
3) Death Hounds (equivalent of Huskies)
4) Vampire Lord Artifacts (Amulet/Ring that boost your powers slightly as a VL. I'd say this is equivalent to the Dawnguard's Crossbow Upgrades.)
5) 1 Unique Restoration Spell

Dawnguard Side Perks:

1) Vampire Lord (That's right, they BOTH get it.)
2) Ability to Smith and Purchase every Crossbow and Bolt type...something the Vampires can't do even for regular Steel Bolts
3) Armored Trolls
4) Huskies (equivalent to Death Hounds)
5) 5 or so Followers
6) Crossbow Upgrades to Enhanced Cross, Dwarven Crossbow, Enhanced Dwarven Crossbow, Steel/Dwarven Bolts of Exploding Frost/Fire/Shock. (Equivalent to Vampire Lord upgrades, I'd say.)
7) Runed Shield and Warhammer
8) 3 Unique Restoration Spells

Hell, both sides even get to blot out the sun. So let's see here...it looks like Bethesda was quite biased towards the Dawnguard, or is it just my imagination?

So wait, we're not allowed to complain that Vampires don't have a practical way of obtaining Ammo for our non-upgraded Crossbows? By that logic, the Dawnguard shouldn't be able to turn into Vampire Lords or blot out the sun.....OH WAIT.

Yeah, it is quite messed up, indeed.

I'm not asking for Vampires to be able to upgrade their crossbows or bolts....but we should be able to, at the VERY LEAST, craft simple Steel Bolts. It is a new weapon for goodness sakes that was the one of the MAIN FLAGSHIP FEATURES of the DLC. Dawnguard side gets Vampire Lords without the artifact upgrades...so why can't Vampires be able to craft bolts without the upgrades? It's only fair.

Again, BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that Bethesda was very biased towards making the Dawnguard more desirable.

Wow Bethesda.... Just wow..... /infinitefacepalm

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:35 am

Wow Bethesda.... Just wow..... /infinitefacepalm

And 7) Dawnguard Rune Axe.... the best weapon of the DLC :lmao:

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:52 am

This is ideal for my character. When I get dawnguard I shall first complete my werewolf tree during the Dawnguard questline and after that I shall become a vampire lord!

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:00 am

Would fair if Vampire Lord had different more perks, then the few given. Still I like Vampire Lord and will make the most of it..

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:16 am

I know what this is. It's the lets spend eternity together scenario. This is straight from Twilight, only gender roles are reversed.

Yeah except for the fact that Edward doesn't want Bella to be a vampire so your statement is just kind of dumb. I don't think Bethesda was like I know lets make this like Twilight! That would be just plain stupid on their part.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:32 pm

1. No evidence. I'm sure she's killed someone, but the Dovahkiin has a far higher kill count then she ever could.

2. No evidence. The only people that would know the Volkihar blocked out the sun would be the Dawnguard, and it's pretty doubtful they or any angry mob they could rile up could take down the entire clan. Even if they did, it doesn't dismiss the armageddon Tamriel would go through. Remember, the sun doesn't just keep Vampires at bay; It allows life to exist. Without the Sun, no food could be grown, all travel would go into lockdown mode, and eventually the world would go into a permanent state of deep winter.

3. A. First off, you're assuming Vamperism is inherently evil, which is untrue. There's no reason someone can't be a Vampire and a good person. Being a Vampire doesn't instantly make someone a monster.

B. What?! Are you serious? That's like, the opposite if how it works. Tons of heros did [censored] things and we remember them..... Well, as heros. The Spartans were effectively a group of slavers who specialized in [censored]-fu, but most people remember them as the group who saved the free world because they fought one awesome battle.

1) It's highly likely she's killed people, she often says things like 'been a long time since I've fought, but I still know how etc'. Do remember she was part of a Molag Bal clan, last time I checked they weren't 'good' and wouldn't batter an eyelid slaughting most people.
If I remember right vampires can live without feeding but slowly become more insane. There is a specific example, google the oblivion quest 'origin of the grey prince'.
Since Serana isn't insane (subjective), it seems she must have fed. But she was locked away for a long time, so maybe when in a state of hibernation the blood thirst doesn't progress or as she's a pure blood vampire she's different, who knows.

2) You're right, the sun is crucial to the life of the lands and people of Tamriel (assuming the flora/fauna of TES have similar needs to earth). So when a small group of vampires successfully block out the sun, people will come from all over Tamriel to stop them. The vampires would have absolutely no chance. Maybe you should speak to Serana's mother, she shares the same view.

3) That's not what I meant by the heroes comment, think of modern day 'good' people like MLK, if he committed some 'evil' act like [censored] or murder before he died and people found out, his 'good' reputation would be heavily dented if not destroyed.

Vampirism is a curse created by the daedric lord Molag Bal, pretty much everyone who is a vampire is one because of the power it gives them, Serana included (proof via dialogue). I haven't heard of one vampire example that has chosen to become a vampire to spread goodness, they're mostly slightly insane and hostile.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:03 am

Not necessarily, even in lore, vampires do not have to kill to survive, similar to how you don't.

That said, the Dawnguard are zealots, you can't convince them how wrong they are because they're far too stubborn. Them not killing you is probably considered a massive act of courtesy in itself.

You can't use the game of skyrims version of vampirism as an example, similar to how they don't live under frozen lakes etc. See my above comment.

Exactly, they are incredibly stubborn, this is expected of a dedicated group designed for one specific purpose. They should attack any and every vampire on sight, when you first meet them you haven't helped fight the vampires yet, you're just a rogue vampire that wanders in (if you are a vampire).

Yeah except for the fact that Edward doesn't want Bella to be a vampire so your statement is just kind of dumb. I don't think Bethesda was like I know lets make this like Twilight! That would be just plain stupid on their part.

You know suspiciously too much about the story...

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:48 pm

Actually the Dawnguard do care if you are a vampire lord. If you are in your human/vampire form, they will just refuse to talk to you and tell you to be cured. Which seems resonable since you are a vampire hunter and Im sure you are not to first to contract it while fighting vampires. If you transform into a VL in their presence they will attack.....so they are not fine with you being a vampire lord.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:48 am

You know suspiciously too much about the story...

I have seen the movies, Twilight may be complete [censored], but the rest are not horrible I have seen worst movies much much worse.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:12 am

Actually the Dawnguard do care if you are a vampire lord. If you are in your human/vampire form, they will just refuse to talk to you and tell you to be cured. Which seems resonable since you are a vampire hunter and Im sure you are not to first to contract it while fighting vampires. If you transform into a VL in their presence they will attack.....so they are not fine with you being a vampire lord.

This just isn't enough, they're vampire hunters and should hunt every vampire they see. The vigilants often have potions of cure disease incase they catch something, I imagine the dawnguard do too, so that's not a good enough excuse.

Not talking to you isn't good enough IMO.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:30 pm

This just isn't enough, they're vampire hunters and should hunt every vampire they see. The vigilants often have potions of cure disease incase they catch something, I imagine the dawnguard do too, so that's not a good enough excuse.

Not talking to you isn't good enough IMO.

I would agree with you if you were some random vampire walking into their castle but you are not. You are their companion, killer of Harkon, a true vampire hunter and possibly their friend. Attacking you on sight seems more irrational then telling you to get help. Also just because you think that they should hunt every vampire they see doesn't mean that how it should be. Your interpretatation of a vampire hunter isn't the only one.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:07 am

Yeah except for the fact that Edward doesn't want Bella to be a vampire so your statement is just kind of dumb. I don't think Bethesda was like I know lets make this like Twilight! That would be just plain stupid on their part.

Firstly, I'd like to say that I've already expressed my feelings on this subject earlier on. My statement, as you dubbed it, was intended to simply be sarcastic and not read into.

Second - really? Do you need to be reminded of Bethesda track-record to be convinced that my scenario was as implausible as you perceived it to be?

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:26 pm

Firstly, I'd like to say that I've already expressed my feelings on this subject earlier on. My statement, as you dubbed it, was intended to simply be sarcastic and not read into.

Second - really? Do you need to be reminded of Bethesda track-record to be convinced that my scenario was as implausible as you perceived it to be?

You do make a good point so touche.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:36 pm

If after completing the DG quest line you can become a VL without the special rings or amulets. I think you should be able to steal some schematics from Fort DG and craft steel bolts, or even exploding steel bolts, after completing the VL quest line. That way both sides can get a taste of some, but not all, of the other side's benifits.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:41 pm

It's weird how they hyped up this as a "Vampire are awesome!!1" dlc and yet totally neglected to make the vampire faction desirable and awesome.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:31 am

This is unfair to the extreme
Thanks to this it is probably more appealing to join the dawnguard but I
ABSOLUTELY HATE THOSE GUYS

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:04 am

Why would you become a VL on the dawnguard side? None of the members will talk to you until you get yourself cured plus you can't get the awesome buffs and items on the vampire side that makes the V awesome its not worth it.