This.

It is better to be forced to transform rather than conveniently press the Beast mode button under the full moon! Besides, there are almost no drawbacks to being a werewolf. I agree entirely Dmel!

Some people can be ignorant to lore. Haivng it actually happen ingame and pretending are completely two different things.

It is like saying my character is a khajiit when he is originally a Nord.

Exactly, Bethesda needs to stop ignoring their own lore just to keep the game from being too hard, when people who do not want to be that kind of werewolf can avoid it. Which is why they should just add wild werewolves that infect you with Sanies Lupinus, and those people who do not like lunar transformations can stay the Companions werewolf.

Wow Bethesda


Again you stab us in the back with your streamlined "everything can be accomplished with one playthrough" mentality. I really wanted the Skyrim DLC to be special. I'm still going to buy your game, but I'll wait for the GOTY version now. I guess the joke's on me.

You can have both things, but only one upgraded version. Like if you choose Dawnguard, you can be a vampire in the end. But you don't get the cool stuff, like the amulet that makes you be able to have two gargoyles instead of one. Same with the VL, you can have a crossbow. But you won't get an armored troll or explosive bolts.

Except that the crossbow is useless if you have no bolts to go along with it, where as the VL is still useful in it's basic form. Not comparable

will serana still turn you into a vampire after the dawnguard quest if you choose to be soultrapped in the soul cairn instead of being turned into a vampire?

There are ways to get bolts to be fair:
- Dwarven spheres.
- Using calm on the dawnguard merchants, you should be able to buy from them.
- Dead dawnguard members.
- Giving a crossbow to npc's along with bolts, then take the bolts as they fire at targets. You can do this when you first go to fort dawnguard without pick pocketing.

But I honestly think the VL form should be vampire questline exclusive and the dawnguard should attack you as a vampire. The vampire questline shouldn't involve going to fort dawnguard first either, it's just laziness.

Wow! I didn't know that Dawnguard had the VL option....though it "kinda" makes sense. I haven't yet run through the Dawnguard side, but I've finished the Vamp side and if Serana is as friendly and helpful there as she is here...then it makes sense that she'd offer the chance to you. If you're considering story content (which you're not, but if you were!) then you'd be getting your gift from Serana and not Harkin himself. My Vamp feels the tiniest bit more special to me because of that difference.


On a slightly "off rail" side note, it doesn't seem like they're favoring the Dawnguard to me. Sure, they did their best to do the DG justice since the DLC is named for them...but I ran straight for the darkside anyhow The points you make are valid, I'm not saying they're not, and the DLC seems a bit off balance at times; I'll agree with that.
But over all I'd say they did both sides justice and it all works out just fine in the end. They way I see it, it's comparing Apples and Oranges. One's nice and sweet, the other a bit tangy, but both are good and good for you in the end so why not just enjoy them!

Mmm....oranges. Now I'm hungry.

I agree about laziness, I couldn't put my self through the rest of the vampire side after I started trying Dawnguard side since they have better benefits anyways. It's quite obvious they favored the Dawnguard side so it doesn't feel balanced out.

Well it depends on the character, if my character doesn't use archery then the dawnguard offers no bonuses for him tbh. My current character is a vampire, I absolutely couldn't do the dawnguard questline as a vampire. It's ridiculous you even have the option,

I'm not so sure just think of the roleplay side their greastest vampire killer is a vampire in disguise, I just got the [censor] that when you play as a vampire Imran keeps picking you as a vampire when he didn't at the start and then had to use a special test to sus you out the 2nd time.

Is this thread serious?

The dawnguard should immediately attack you (and Serana) as soon as they find out you're a vampire, which they should know instantly as they are vampire hunters.

What aspect of it seems jokey? It's serious.

this is actually great news

Well, this thread did confirm for me that you can be a vampire lord on either side of the conflict, which I personally prefer. I was under the impression that, as mentioned somewhere in this thread I'm sure, vampire lord and all its perks would be exclusive to the Volkihar questline which was somewhat disappointing to me. Come to think of it, I would've thought Serana would also have been confined to the Volkihar.

Anyway, I see a lot of folk are unsatisfied with what could be perceived as favortism towards the Dawnguard as far as development went. I personally believe that while exclusivity would have been more realistic for several aspects of this DLC, it was not at the top of Bethesda's to-do list. I am however, quite content with the fact that either side allows you to become a vampire lord for the plain and simple fact that it is optional as far as joining up with Dawnguard is concerned. Not to mention you are encouraged not to become one until the Dawnguard questline is, for all intents and purposes, completed.

So what's the problem with Dawnguard (generalizing now) if becoming a vampire lord is optional? Well, I personally don't see a problem. Both sides grant immersion, which in itself is a blessing, so I'm perfectly content with how things turned out. I think that many of you are disappointed because you desired to be able to collect any and everything that the DLC has to offer. I enjoy the living hobby shop playstyle, but sometimes it's just not meant to be. Dawnguard seems as though it was designed to denote a higher level of immersion to Skyrim, which as I mentioned in the aforementioned I felt it accomplished.

As far as being the massive collector of unique items go, Dawnguard is the way to go. If you see vampirism as a blight upon society and wish to cleanse Skyrim of it, again - you'll want the Dawnguard.

If you prefer collecting more personalized unique items then you'll probably want the Volkihar. If you're more into personal empowerment and watching your character rise to unholy glory, then the Volkihar will grant you everything you need to become an ungodly aberration that rules with no regret nor mercy and strikes fear into the hearts of all elven and mankind alike.

Point being: Skyrim is an individual-player game. It is designed to literally revolve around you and the choices you make. If you don't think that becoming a vampire lord while fighting for a faction that is dedicated to killing vampires is realistic, then you're more than entitled to decline the opportunity to become a vampire lord, or ignore it completely. Taking out the option completely would just take away another versatile freedom we're granted in Skyrim, so I'm content with the ability to choose whether I want to be a vampire masquerading as a vampire hunter or whether I want to be a vampire hunter masquerading as a vampire hunter. And yeah, I did read what I just said. It's early. Cut me some slack.

I agree with what collectivism said!

Do you not agree that the dawnguard should instantly attack you as a vampire, and Serana? Regardless of what you've done for them, if you become a vampire later on they should hunt you down and reject you from the fort.

If you wander up to the fort as a vampire, they should be hostile regardless of your intentions, they're vampire hunters. You could just as easily start the vampire questline by a vampire messenger (for example).

You have a point about the VL thing, you can just choose not to become one. But I'd still prefer the DLC to be less biased to the dawnguard.

I am greatly enjoying the DLC overall, just a few little things that irritate me. This aswell if your interested - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1394026-the-people-of-skyrim-have-had-an-epiphany-regarding-vampires-we-accept-them-now/

I am disappointed with the fact that Serana, if choosing to side with Dawnguard, is introduced by being allowed within the confines of the castle. At the same time, I'm at odds with it though. It's highly subjective to roleplaying, which makes me think of why vampires I considered inherently evil. I did build them up in my post to be ungodly heathens of death, but I didn't mean to typecast them as purely soulless beings devoid of human characteristics. I feel quite the opposite in fact, and Beth even implys the opposite if you take Serana into consideration.

Taking into consideration that you greatly aided Dawnguard in the decimation of castle Volkihar and Serana, the daughter of the primary antagonist no less, also aided Dawnguard in the ransacking of Volkihar then I would have to answer your question with my own: sitting in the perspective of someone in Isran's position, would you bring yourself to reject, even kill the only individuals that helped massive progression in your own efforts? Attributing morality to the characters makes me think of something else Beth should have implemented: a setting to control NPC moral. Similar to this, only controllable: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Category:Skyrim-NPCs-by-Morality

That makes me think of yet another thing Bethesda could've done with the stages of vampirism. Rather than being attacked on site, you're not noticeable to the veteran vampire hunters at stage 1 of vampirism. Seems realistic, as you've recently fed and are able to blend with society. Any other stage and the Dawnguard, being veterans, should be able to notice you. Once you hit stage 4, everyone should take notice of you.

And I prefer my coffee hot. Sometimes things just aren't meant to be.

I saw that and already tossed my two cents in before I saw this post. I suppose you have a knack for inviting me.

Guess I don't know how to quote individual points. Oh well.

Well I guess I'm going to have to play on the Dawnguard side, I didn't like the 3rd person of the VL so I never used it the second time I played the DLC. Seemed to be much better fighting as your normal character I guess XP earned in VL form robs you from your skill progression.

So I'm going to have to cure myself of vamperism because as a vampire archer I get almost nothing out of this DLC, then I'm going to have to get Serana to turn me back again. Seems stupid to me after all like Serana say's why would I want to give up this gift.

This is a dissapointing DLC all the other factions and quests lines in Vanilla Skyrim let you play through them no matter what your character is.

It should have been more like this -

The Volkihar bonuses:

1) Vampire Lord form
2) Smithing / purchasing crossbows & bolts
3) Ancient Gargoyle companions
4) Death Hound companions
5) Vampire Lord artifacts & blood potions
6) One unique restoration spell

The Dawnguard bonuses:

1) Five or so humanoid followers
2) Smithing / purchasing crossbows & bolts
3) Armored Troll companions
4) Protected husky companions
5) Crossbow enhancements & rune weapons
6) Three unique restoration spells

With items earned in the soul cairn garnering a specific side effect, like Arkved being hostile to all civilians in Skyrim.
Or Serana making Isran get on your back for having an ancient vampire follow you around all day without a care at all.

Maybe even a more clear definition to Dawnguard's ending would be nice, more repercussions for which side you choose.
The volkihar in my opinion should be able to block out the sun indefinitely by the end or at least have an option for that.

And Serena should *not* be allowed to give members of the Dawnguard the vampire lord choice. That's just terribly silly.

i still believe that vampires should be able to craft crossbow bolts.

Could not disagree with you more Serana helping Dawnguard makes sense the whole enemy of my enemy deal. If you are Dawnguard side it makes sense once it's all said and done that if you go VL your going to be weaker because of no unique items to boost your powers also all the members don't like you any more and won't offer quests. Also makes no sense for vamps to have crossbows lol they use magic and when the s hit's the fan they have VL form.

I find it funny vamp side cries about Dawnguard able to get a weaker VL but they want crossbows and the special bolts lol

- You're a member of the Dawnguard. She's a vampire. Nuff' said.

- Vampire Lord form should only be for players who side with the vampires, as the trailer hinted.

- It makes no sense that a supposed weapon remastered by imperial armsman not http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Crossbows_and_Bolts is now exclusive to the Dawnguard.

Bah, they should of just made the Dawnguard into a secretive pact of Hircine's champions on nirn for the next bloodmoon.
If you'd join them you would get the werebear transformation- that would have solved these balancing problems quite easily.

It's lost tech man the girl in dg creates them.

Retcon, derp.