I agree.

I still support the Stormcloaks,but I think that Skyrim and the Empire should workl together as allies to deal with the Thalmor.

This is the spoilers section, if you click on a thread with over a 150 comments IN THE SPOILER SECTION and expect not to find spoilers, then there's a problem. People are already restricted on saying spoilers on the general section, no need for more restriction on the section that was made for the exact purpose.

I felt a little guilty too, but its all good. I played as the imperials one time and he seemed like such a coward right before the battle. Made me feel like everything he said/did right before and after that was all an act.

I don't think she can do much more about Maven. Maven is like the TES of equivalent of a mafioso. Maybe not that extreme, but the fact that Laila is not in her pocket is almost the best you can do in situations like that. You can fight those elements in your cities, but at high cost. Italy has plenty of dead statesmen killed by crime syndicates. Even though it's not conveyed well in game, I think that's what they're shooting for with Maven and her untouchable status.

Yeah. svcks.

I re read my post and I said nothing about dark elves having anything to do with the Aldmeri Dominion, Although when you first enter Windhelm you see Rolff Stone-Fist and his friends supposedly harassing one of the dark elves residents by questing her asking why she isn't supporting the stormcloaks. She responded back by saying that it wasn't her war to fight... she was then accused of being an imperial spy. Do you not blame Rolff? Since you said in your own word that the Thalmor want to essentially end the world shouldn't the dark elves fight against them? I guess when their rights aren't being violated yet it really doesn't matter now does it. I am certain that Ulfric would've allowed any dark elf to be apart of the stormcloaks to fight against the empire and the thalmor. I have never heard him talk badly about them, and everyone still accuses him of being a racist.

I guess in the elders scroll worldhttp://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g322/Raidensama/TESV2012-02-2523-42-39-36.jpg I guess for as long as their rights aren't being restricted like the nords.

Raizen Sama.... thing is if you talk to many people in Windhelm (I'm posting stuff others have said, haven't done it myself - I HATE Windhelm) none of the elves feel there's an issue. So I guess you should maybe go talk to everyone? Other than whatshisface of course.

You said the Thalmor want to turn everyone who isn't a dark elf into a thrall. The Thalmor are the governing body of the Aldmeri Dominion.

Serethil, I've spoken to many people in windelm and it's the same ole bickering. One dark elf said to win the trust of the nords is through hard work while others tells me “If the nords hate me I hate them, blah” Of course none of the elves feels theirs an issue because I'm sure they don't worship talos. Skyrim is the home of the nords. Talos is a big thing for them and the imperials and the thalmor wants to stop it from happening. To stay on subject that's why Balgruuf the Greater was a terrible jarl. He might be a very good warrior, but terrible in politics.

Ah.... no, they're not. They're an "agent arm" of the Aldmeri Dominion. Spies. Facilitators. They're NOT the governing body.


We will agree to disagree. Balgruuf is not a warrior. He is Jarl because he cares for his people. He would prefer to avoid a war at all costs - because only his people will suffer (in his view) at the end of it (keep in mind that in game, NO ONE actually suffers - Balgruuf goes off to Solitude if you go with the Stormcloaks, and the city has some "forever" damage - but nothing else changes much.... Vignar, ineffectual as he is takes over, and life goes on apace). Balgruuf is EVERYTHING a great Jarl should be. Unlike Ulfric or Igmund.

Really? I heard someone say before that they were the guys in charge of the dominion. Thanks for clearing it up.

Hmm. I'll have to go dig around again. Somewhere it's stated that the Thalmor are agents of the Aldmeri Dominion. Truth though? I don't know who DOES run the Aldmeri Dominion. Do we even know that in game?

[Okay, there's been some fair edits to info on the wiki since I first looked. Originally (shortly after I got the game at release) the wiki stated the Thalmor were "spies" of the AD.... and gave some quotations from some Beth dev (I think) that they were "enforcers" but not those in charge. Now, that's not the case, and I'm not sure if you can even see edits to the material? I hadn't had any reason to look at it lately, but seems as if things have changed.... *shrug* I don't care one way or the other, except to say that I was posting stuff that's been retconned I guess, so my bad.]

According to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Balgruuf_the_Greater hes classified as being a warrior. War was going to happen whether or not he likes it. Ulfric has his priories. He wants to become the next king of skyrim so he needs all of the support from the other Jarls. Obviously Balgruuf has an issue with Ulfric and ultimately made a bad political mistake by siding up with the imperials.

If he truly cared for the people in whiterun he wouldn't had acted so tough (His warrior blood was rushing through his veins) and "who has the bigger size dike" and requested a one on one meeting with Ulfric.

Remember the last time Ulfric had a one-on-one meeting with another ruler? It didn't end well.

Raizen Sama.... a game classification really has nothing to do with how the character "is". Balgruuf's brother conducts himself as a warrior. Balgruuf doesn't. You are entitled to your opinion, though I don't see why you care what anyone else thinks.... if you want him dead go for it, and whatever rationalization you need to make it okay for you, well, that's fine. I don't want him dead, and will never "go there" in my games. Each to her own.

Ah yes, Balgruuf went along with the WGC because he believed it was the right thing to do (and those chests full of gold didnt hurt).

And Sven is marked as a Lumberjack, even though he's a bard. And Aela is marked as a Thief, even though that she's a "Huntress".

*shrug* He's not dripping gold, and his daughter's carping about him not giving her the new dress he promised. Aside from the building itself, I don't see a whole lot of excess there.... in fact, you can find just about every person in Whiterun eating there sometime - except the drunk begger whatever his name is. So Balgruuf's supporting the entire town on that gold. Works for me.

There appears to be dialogue suggesting that Balgruuf doesn't have much in his coffers anymore.(From what I've seen in the CK)

I haven't heard it in game, but Balgruuf and Proventius talk about restocking the dragonsreach larders and Balgruuf says he doesn't have enough money for that and his troops. I can't recall the entire thing unfortunately.

What are you referring to? Torygg? That meeting went exactly as he had planned.

The Thalmor are the ruling class now in Alinor. They have different ranks such as ambassadors, soldiers, justiciars which are like the religious police/ special forces, etc.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Rising_Threat,_Vol._I

She seems completely oblivious to what Maven is, though.

I respected The jarl..i really did. I mean he was an easy going guy and [censored] i helped his guards kill a dragon he lets me buy a house...screw the whole "my people need to know u first"..hes more like "u helped save this town, hey why dont u buy a house here?". He was cool BUUUUUT unfortuantly he chose the wrong side in my game. No i didnt enjoy battling in the first city i lived in or having to fight a man i call friend...BUT for the good of the country we had to draw blades against each other. He fought to keep his people safe under the empire and i fought to keep his people safe under a free skyrim. I would have loved to have him fight beside me for the glory of a free Skyrim but he chose to fight to keep them under the empire. i have no problems at all with the charector or his morals...we had different ideals and ideas for what was best for the people fo Skyrim and we stood against each as men, he fougth with much honor. But his hold was a very vital position for takign skyrim back from the emperial forces and for the greater good fo the country i had to sacrifise a friend and fight a man i respected.

Thats about the jist of the entire war. Rikke, Ulfric, and Galmar were all once good friends. Civil wars turn friend against friend, and family against family.

It's pretty cool if you export the dialogue you can see the dev notes on how each line is supposed to be delivered.

Some of galmar's lines to rikke during the solitude end are noted as "Desperately hoping he doesn't have to kill his friend"
Rikke's notes when talking to Galmar during windhelm's are noted as "Trying to convince an old friend to stop the bloodshed"

Balgruuf was a good guy, but I'm not sure if he was a good leader for Whiterun. He always seemed somewhat indecisive; there is a civil war raging in Skyrim, and you don't choose a side? He should have sided with either the Legion or the Stormcloaks far earlier.

About the surrender of Whiterun; I'd rather have had Balgruuf on my side, but in the end he was just another obstacle for the sure victory of the Stormcloaks. He says he expected better of you, but I didn't really find that offensive; I sided with the Stormcloaks, he decided to call the help of the Legion. He's the one who disappointed me; I was already flashing my Stormcloak Cuirass around Dragonsreach way before the Battle of Whiterun.