Boy did I feel bad, he was the first honorable character that I met and was so nice and generous. Then as a stormcloak took whiterun and made him surrender.

He made me feel pretty guilty. And considering that I'm feeling guilty and this is a video game, that's saying something.


What was your mood when he surrendered?

He never did.

Ulfric is lying dead in his throne.

I think you forgot to put a spoiler tag on the title

I had mixed feelings about this. He was definitely the first honorable character encountered in the game, however upon joining the stormcloaks, I was fully committed to the Stormcloak rebellion, therefore his surrender was necessary. Interesting thread though because I felt Jarl was indeed trying to assist the dragonborn, and his character development from there was quite interesting. I'd definitely like to hear other opinions on this as well, seeing as how (in my opinion, his character development was established very early on).

What a coincidence! I only just took Whiterun myself and I must admit I felt pretty guilty too, especially after talking to the others he turned to ME and said, "I expected better of you!" Talk about a guilt trip as he gave me Lydia!

I`m just glad we didn`t have to kill him.

It also made me wonder how Lydia felt as she was standing right behind me! She appeared to have no emotion at all.

I expected it all to turn out more brutally than it did. But it was still a kick in the gut. It makes you see that civil war is not pretty, though. It's brother against brother, and if it didn't hurt then the story would just be a contrived black and white thing.

I definitely agree with all above, but if you think about it, in the opening scene of the game, you are on your way to be beheaded along with Ulfric Stormcloak and Ralof. And I believe at one point during the carriage ride, Ralof says something like "we are all brothers in bind" (can't remember the exact quote but its something like that. So i suppose if you choose the Imperials, at some point something like this would also occur with Ulfric Stormcloak. I have yet to choose the Imperials on any of my characters, but I assume a situation like this would occur whichever side you choose.

But going back to the OP, I agree. They did a great job developing the Jarl of Whiterun into someone who I would consider an ally. So yes, I did feel guilty doing it. Don't mean to spam this thread with my own posts but I keep thinking of different things i wanted to say! I'm still new to the forums lol.

I honestly do not think this post would qualify as a spoiler. It's kind of a given..you join the stormcloaks you are going to make people surrender. It was not a surprise to me at all. I thought I was going to have to kill him though

Not everyone has done the Civil War questline. And not everyone joins the Stormcloaks.

His children were spoiled brats. I don't miss them.

I admit I felt so awful about it that I abandoned my only Stormcloak character right there on the spot.

Mee too... If there's one Jarl who deserves the title of high king, that's the Jarl of Whiterun. He's a true nord, but also a down to heart politician and has the well being of his subjects in mind. He and Ravencrone are the only two Jarls worth something.

he shouldn't have run to the empire, I mean, I go out of my way to join the stormcloaks (a means to an end) and then I march up to my jarl (as his thane) and gave him the axe, full well knowing it was a request of allegiance, than he joins the empire, stupid and ignorant move.

had he sided with the stormcloaks he would have avoided conflict all together as the stormcloaks would have moved in a fortified the place entirely before the empire even knew what they were doing, yet he decided to actively seek out battle by bringing the empire in, he had a chance to avoid bloodshed, yet he chose to welcome it, I'm glad he's gone before he did something even worse.

If he joined the stormcloaks then the Thalmor would also be after him and since it's a lost cause he'd get Whiterun broken down and shattered,Ulfric is an idiot,EVERYONE wishes they could worship Talos and EVERYONE supports Ulfrics cause secretly but [censored] it you're asking for them to abandon the Thalmor and restart a lost war with even less people to fight.

did you hear the speech galmar and ulfric had before joining the stormcloaks? they were already planning to attack whiterun, simply for it's strategic location. whether you like their cause or not, they are going for the first punch, acting as aggressors. galmar is pretty crazy and already wants to spill blood, with his "if they're not with us, they're against us" speech. even ulfric tries to call him down for a second, but can't.

from jarl baalgruff's perspective, this is screwed up. they give him no choice but to be enemies. it's no different than if you had a home, and you knew someone was going to break in. it would piss you off. there's no decision left except to fight the burglars off or call the cops to get help. in the jarl's case, it's a whole city. why would he want to side with the people who want to attack him out of the blue? Because they're all "Nords" and "brothers" and he should realize it's for a great cause? If they were really "brothers" and it was a great cause for Nords, then Galmar wouldn't have been so bloodthirsty on his fellow Nords. he'd try to be patient, like brothers would be.

I also felt bad (I had hoped that when I presented him with Ulfrics axe he would side with the Stormcloaks) He did seem like a nice man. I was very pleased that I did not have to kill him.


I agree with that.

He's not honourable. His courtiers openly admit to him taking bribes, his heir tells you he secretly hates the Thalmor (but due to said bribes does not oppose them), and that he has children by numerous women, which goes somehwat against that solid Nordic father figure image he's been cultivating.


The whole axe business is them offering a choice. But the 'true Nord' didn't come around.

After playing a lot, I think the only true nords are the neutrals. ravencrone, baalgruff, and laila law giver (she likes the stormcloaks, but isn't all that excited about joining sides either). And most importantly, the greybeards. anyone who thinks they're doing a good thing for Nords by escalating war is misguided. it's war, after all. nords vs nords. this isn't a good thing.

He was my favorite Jarl and I felt really bad when he surrendered and turned to me and said, 'I expected more from you.'

I found myself replying, 'I didn't want it to come to this!' Sadly, he couldn't hear me.

I was really glad to find him again in a certain basemant.

The neutrals (not that Laila is neutral - she's a committed Stormcloak Ulfric supporter) are quite bad jarls, though. Balgruuf takes bribes, Ravencrone is completely unresponsive to anything that goes in her Hold until someone tells her to act, and Laila is either corrupt or clueless, and selfish (she orders a private carriage in case Riften comes under attack).

At first I felt bad but soon after the Jarl made a big mistake by siding with the imperial legion right after the axe exchange. It's nothing personal but business. All of his talks about "I expect better from you" meant nothing to me. I expected better from him... as a Jarl who's suppose to protect people and their freedom of worship. He failed thus he needed to be replace by someone who will.

The Emperor Titus Mede II is not only weak but supports the tyrant behavior of the thalmor who thinks that they have the right to dictate what other can and cannot do. They target Nords who worships Talos.

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If you're upset about Nords being targetted, then you're not improving anything by prolonging a situation that gets even more Nords targetted. Except, this time it's not Thalmor targetting Nords. It's Nords targetting Nords. Which is even more screwed up. What's even funnier than that is that some are so proud of it. Their minds are so twisted that they actually think their fighting the Dominion by slicing their neighbor's throat. Civil Wars rarely have anything noble about them. It's not as cool as you think.

I liked Baalgruff and felt similar to OP when I did the Stormcloak questline.
I've always been curious though; since the Jarl was clearly in bed with the Imperials, why does Whiterun allow an open-air shrine to Talos right at the foot of Dragonreach?
I think it's testament to Baalgruff's attempts to reconcile his people's needs with the political necessity of their protection.

I've decided, in regards to the whole Civil War.... I'm siding with the Falmer.