Yeah, I like him for his personality quirks alone. I'm not so cold, but I'm probably more that way than not. Ulfric is ok in general, but personality wise, people like him get on my nerves.

He isn't telling him how it is; he's threatening him and essentially saying "join me or die".

Cecilff2 said: "We don't really have the luxury of knowing that. The terms we do know do not include allowing thalmor agents to take whoever they want."

I believe they are allowed to arrest and interrogate anyone they suspect of being a Talos-worshipper. Now obviously this is a very grey area, and there's enough to go on. For all we know, they could be doing a "good job" and eing very careful in their selection, or they could just be total [censored]s and take whoever they want.

"And completely legal by Nord standards. Empire hasn't interfered with their succession rites in the past, nor did they attempt to stop the duel whatsoever."

To be fair, that was the Septim Empire AND it's considered an ancient Nord tradition that is hardly done. Ulfric was the first in a long time. The reason they made no attempts to stop the duel, is because Ulfric springed it on Torygg at the last minute, and then ran out of Solitude.

"1. Are the thalmor actually bretons?"

I'm sorry, what? What do Bretons have to do with this?

"2. Popular Imperial dialogue: I can't wait to kill me another of Ulfric's boys."

Huh. I'll be honest, I've never heard that dialogue in any of my playthroughs.

"3. http://www.imperial-library.info/content/decree-monument"

No, it's not. First off, the Decree of Monument was in 4E 20, over 180 years before when the game Skyrim takes place. Ulfric and many of his supporters treat them very differently than the Kings and Jarls of old.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Quarter

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Windhelm


How?


But he supports the Stormcloaks. Somewhat foreboding and leaves a bit of a bad taste in your mouth, does it not?


Yes, because the Dunmer used Argonians as slaves for centuries (if not millenia) and the Argonians are still on top after kicking Morrowind's ass when they invaded/attacked after the Red Year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend the Dunmer's racism and enslavement of Argonians (I loved freeing slaves whenever I could in Morrowind), but the sheer hatred that exists between the Dunmer and Argonians is kind of understandable, even if you only look on relatively recent events in their mutual history.


Nothing is incorrect; I'm right in saying that Heimskr is a touch nutty.


Really? Falk Firebeard says that?

Raizen said: "Ralof is not a stormcloak so what you just said about him is invalid."

And with that, you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt how wrong you are about so many things. Ralof is clearly a Stormcloak, and I'm not gonna waste any more breath on you if you seriously believe something like this.



THANK YOU, Serethil and L33ty; you have saved me the trouble.

I did feel sad, not until he acctually spoke to me did I feel really bad.

I think theirs a misunderstanding. Yes you're right Ralof is a stormcloak. I meant to said Rolff. I guess it's common to mix these 2 names together since their very similar in the spelling.

IMO I don't know how Ralof manage to be svcked into this discussion to be perfectly be honest with you. I guess I will have to invest in time later to re read this entire thread to figure it out.

Oh yeah, I remember when Ulfric killed Balgruuf.

So you approve of the empire allowing the thalmor to take anyone they want. They aren't doing a good job, they focus on the populace and completely ignore the leaders. They're trying to cause strife and the empire allows it.

I guess we shouldn't really take the bill of rights seriously either. Age of a law does not make the law invalid.

Gee I dunno, what's Ralof supposed to call the elves?



Evidence? The UESP doesn't really say anything about it. They seem to let one Dunmer leave the city and run his own farm. I don't see anyone forcing dunmer to live anywhere.
Don't use the wiki or uesp as evidence either. They have a lot of trouble staying unbiased.

"The Jarl of Windhelm, Ulfric Stormcloak, believes that the Dunmer, Argonians, and Khajiits shouldn't be allowed in Skyrim" is completely unsupported by anything.


It's a man in a city. He isn't representative of the ENTIRE city.


Not really. The empire supports the justicars. Somewhat foreboding and leaves a bit of a bad taste in your mouth, does it not?


http://imgur.com/bEob9
http://imgur.com/UMMmw

Exactly. Torryg could have refused the challenge but it would have caused the moot to convene which likely would have lost him his crown. That would have been better for Skyrim as then there would be no civil war and no cause for the empire to send Tullius. Better for Skyrim but worse for Torryg. Worse for the empire and thalmor as well since they would lose their puppet king.

Ah, sorry. I don't ever remember messing with Rolff (who is HE, anyway?) - so when you used Ralof, it was simple assumption on my part that somehow you were confused about him being a Stormcloak....

Rolff is the classic example of racism that you meet the first time you step foot in Windhelm.

It's not as simple as that. Torygg couldn't just go 'Well, gee, Mr. Ulfric sir! I'll just refuse your challenge and let the moot convene!". You have to consider how much honor is valued in Nord society. Not agreeing to the duel goes beyond him not staying king. He will be looked down on for the rest of his life and called a coward because he didn't fight. But he did fight, and now we have a civil war.

?... I coc in and out of Windhelm to use the market. I don't talk to anyone but the shopkeepers. I really hate that place.... So, since after reading your post, I still didn't know who he was, I looked him up on the wiki. *shrug* AFAIK, I've never actually seen him or heard his spiel.... And I do NOTHING with the Stormcloaks, so - eh, if they're all racist, so be it. No skin off my nose one way or the other.

And yet the civil war didn't have to be an outcome of the duel. The empire refused to let the nords sort out their law. They complained only when Ulfric won the duel. (Hence why they didn't stop it in the first place)

Rolff (he's supposed to be related to Galmar or something like that and uses it to his advantage) is that guy that is shouting about how he's going to go into the grey quarter and beat up on the dark elves and he's pushing this dark elf around when you first enter Windhelm. I've seen this type in real life. They're just mean drunks and cowards. Sonja walked up to him right then in front of the dark elves and said "I don't like your attitude." And he says "Oh yeah?" and he starts a fist fight. Sonja cold cocked him in one punch. He got up and wanted to buy her a drink. Never gave the dark elves any more trouble though.

And no, the Stormcloaks aren't all racist like that. That's a generalization. Go to Riften. That's a Stormcloak town. You see Argonian, Dunmer, Nord, Breton, all together and they seem to get along.

Whoa, I created this thread a while ago in the General Section and I wondered where it went! Haha

Hmmm. Coldcocked him oneshot huh? Maybe I'll have to look him up then.... I LOVE to hassle drunks n bullies.... And I really WASN'T meaning I thought the Stormcloaks are all racist, just that if they are, I just wouldn't care. While I agree with you about many things, we'll have to "agree to disagree" about the Stormcloaks.... and THAT is sheerly because of my preference for Balgruuf.

Yup, I had great pleasure when I got the opportunity to have a brawl with him.

Why should the Empire let the Nords sort out their own law? The Nords are part of the Empire, they follow the Empire's law.

You're right about that, but I also think Laila Law Giver is the Stormcloak equivalent of Baalgruuf. She's more on the fence than a strong supporter. I feel just as bad deposing her too. I mean, if I'm in the mood to play up my good side. If you become Thane, she compares you to Mjoll, and how you go out of your way to help people in her city. It's pretty lame if you strip her power, because I think she actually cares. She also suspects Ulfric might just be vying for a crown.. so she's not all that excited being on that side. If you depose her, she regrets it and says she failed her people.

This is what Rolff does late at night. He starts between 12 to 1 am in the game time and he continues to do it until 3AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBrEP-VUonE <~~~ a video of him ranting about his dark hatred against the dark elves.

You guys must hate for me doing this but my character is best buddies with him. My character did have to teach him a lesson, and he doesn't regret it.

As for Laila Law Giver shes such a cry baby. If only Ulfric allowed me to kill her that would've been for the best really. She rants on by saying how evil Ulfric is and how hes going to be the cause for everyone in skyrim to starve and go hungry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78gSpUYB7-E She has no idea what is to come. The thalmor wants to turn everyone who isn't a dark elf into a thrall... to kill everyone and to steal the nords land. The imperials aren't doing jack. Ulfrics sick of tired of the [censored] and took action.

She says Ulfric's cause is just, but that she's worried about her people. Except not worried enough to check Maven Blackbriar or her idiot offspring. Balgruuf is a lot smarter than she is. I think she's smoking whatever Wylandriah is smoking. Of course, your alternative is Maven as jarl, so.

I *think* Laila probably inherited an untenable situation from the husband who's never mentioned.... and likely, she thinks it IS helping her people to keep Maven more or less at bay. Maven as jarl is NOT something I personally would find acceptable. In ANY world.

Can you say spoilers, I can, threads like this could you please make title little less blunt.

This is the Cheats, Hints and Spoilers forum. If you don't ever want to see same, don't read this forum.

I know, it's that forum, but even I try make my titles less blunt, concerning events. I look on this forum sometimes, for posts I made, thus seeing titles like this, without even clicking. Talk about wow hit in the face.

Raizen, you have no idea what you are talking about. The dark elves have nothing at all to do with the Aldmeri Dominion or the Thalmor. And the Thalmor, which is made up of high elves, despise dark elves.

Also, this civil war and all the tension with the Thalmor goes far beyond skyrim. The Thalmor want to essentially end the world. You think they're going to stop at Skyrim?

*shrug* I repeat.... And if you're posting herein, don't be so damned sensitive. If you have that sort of issue, don't post here either.



Thank you. I hope others finally figure this out....