You have to consider which would be more powerful -
A: a collection of nations cooperating together
B: an empire imposing its rule over provinces

We've already seen that the empire did not even have the power to hold onto most of its provinces so option B doesnt seem so strong to me.

Except that events in the quest line do not bear this out. No matter which side you take the Stormcloaks end up attacking Whiterun, so if he actually cared about his people he would side with Ulfric, since that avoids the battle entirely. For what it's worth I think this was a mistake on Bethesda's part, since you're right that from a strategic point of view Tullius would have no choice but to assault a pro-Stormcloak Whiterun; leaving it in their hands exposes his entire southern flank, which results in him getting rolled like a cheap rug if you back the Stormcloaks since he can't re-deploy his troops properly using the outer roads.

This isn't just a war we're talking about. This is mass genocide of any race of non-mer. Are you even looking at the bigger picture? The Empire did not regulate talos warship- doing nothing and letting the justicars have their way is much different. Let's assume that the Empire keeps Skyrim, and finally defeat the Dominion. Do you honestly think they'll still hold to the baning of Talos worship? Talos was the damned first Emperor. And no, I don't think they'll sit idly by, but consider the racial tensions- do you think that Ulfric would call for aid from the imperium if Skyrim were invaded in the future? Morrowind is already all but decimated, and Hammerfell is in a stalemate. Elswhyr is already under Dominion control, which makes the premise of "Nations rising together" extremely naive.

I'll say it again- this isn't just a war over land, or power, or provinces. The Dominion doesn't believe a human can ascend to godhood, and views all non-mer as thralls to be enslaved, or cattle to be slaughtered. Sacrifices must be made in order for the greater good to be served in the long run, and the idea of continuing the war instead of signing the white gold concordant would just be condemning imperial citizens to the slaughter.

And you honestly believe the Empire is doing nothing? They're just waiting for the Dominion to get strong enough to crush them? It seems you and Raizen are the ones who don't know what they are talking about. The Empire hate the Dominion just as much as anyone else, it's just that they aren't stupid. Going out in blaze of glory is a plan for someone who has run out of all options and has no hope left. The Empire signed the treaty because they want to live to fight another day. True, they have sacrificed some rights to do so, but do you really believe this is going to be permanent? This isn't a tyrannical Empire, this is an Empire in a tight spot trying to bide its time.

As for your second point, if the Empire falls you really think Hammerfell could withstand the Dominion? I don't think so. It would be 300 all over again. Sure, they might last awhile but eventually they'd fall. The clearest way to victory for the Empire against the Dominion is a united Empire. You wanting Hammerfell to stay independent and the Stormcloaks to win is exactly what the Dominion would want. I thought you guys were against the Dominion?

Here we go with the "biding their time" argument again. What makes you think "biding their time" is a winning strategy when the WGC gives the thalmor the right to move freely within their territory, demand the right to take custody of any prisoner to be tortured into confession, and allows them to bribe Jarls and the wealth class? The WGC strengthens the Thalmor position and weakens the Empire. Waiting them out is not gaining on them.

I understand the thought behind the WCG, even if I think it was cowardly and unnecessary- a surrender and not a cease fire. However Skyrim should look at Hammerfell and understand that the empire intends first of all to use its provinces as bargaining chips to save Cyrodiil. If they have to, they'll sell Skyrim out. In fact that's what we see them doing- they're just doing it piece by piece rather than wholesale.

Secondly it's a huge tactical failure in that they're hamstringing their strongest weapon- Talos. If he goes down, there truly is no hope for humanity and the best you can hope for is that Alduin returns, the world is destroyed and there's another kalpa of creation rather than the unfurling of the dragon as the Thalmor are hoping for. So it's not possible to calculate merely on human and arithmetic terms, troop numbers and alliances and so forth. Having Skyrim be an independent island of strong Talos worship is a nightmare for the Dominion that's a bigger threat than the weak-willed empire slumping along as it has been. Even moreso if free Cyrodiil and free Skyrim join with the other nations in an alliance against them.

This. The very bottom line, the basic problem with ANYTHING where the Thalmor or the Aldmeri Dominion have ANY say, is that they don't want to just subjugate the humans and their governments, lands etc. They want to ERADICATE them. That means wipe the human scum from the face of Nirn, in case some of you don't quite get it.

Waiting them out and biding time are two different things. Waiting them out means exactly that. Biding your time means you're actually coming up with a plan that can get you out of your current mess. Also you criticize what they do but give no alternative. And going out in a blaze of glory isn't that.

Any plan would require denying Thalmor the right to take prisoners, the right to infiltrate, and the right to oversee. If you dont do at least that much then biding your time is a negative not a positive.

If this quest was written worth a crap, they would have had Ulfric turn to us and say something along the lines of "We're going to see how committed you are to our cause- kill this whelp."

That would have presented us with an incredibly tense and difficult decision, especially considering how much we had already helped the city of Whiterun and befriended the Jarl. Not that I would expect that from Bethesda or anything, but still, I couldn't help but think how much better that would have been.

Taking fire from many fronts

Valas-
The Thalmor are out of Hammefell it is no stalemate.The Redguards won

Llama-
Why would Skyrim not help Hammerfell,Cyrodil,or High Rock if they were attacked?

All-
The removal of man is lore forum lore.I have no reason to doubt it is the motivation behind the Thalmor as it is hinted at by a few NPCs.Having said that it is also unimportant atm.As it stands the Thalmor will need [insert plot device here] to accomplish that.They will be unable to do it by force of arms.

I would agree with you if they had a choice. They had to agree to the terms or face destruction. The Empire can make a come back. Just because the Thalmor are overseeing things doesn't mean the Empire is helpless. Do you honestly believe the Empire couldn't make secret plans.

I think the Empire is doomed. I think it will go much the same way as Rome did, and in the end it will just be dissolved, and Tamriel will go back to ruling itself seperately.

Cyrodil and High Rock are still part of the Empire. The Stormcloaks think the Empire is too weak to do anything. So if the Stormcloaks win what makes you think they'll come to the Empire's aid? And if the Empire does fall do you really think Skyrim and Hammerfell could hold off or even defeat the Dominion.

We are getting into a lot of what ifs here now.

The way I see it the Dominion is doing a very simple and yet most effective tactic, divide and conquer. Break apart the Empire and dominate each province one by one.

Hammerfell already beat the Thalmor.
What makes you think Skyrim would not Help Cyrodil or High Rock if asked.The Stormcloaks don't hate the Empire they think the Empire is unworthy of ruling them.

I am glad this is staying a good natured debate.Sometimes it gets contentious.

From what I read Hammerfell brought the Dominion to a standstill and not a defeat. So not sure which of us is right. As to where I get the idea the Stormcloaks might not help is the Nord pride. That could possiblely get in the way. You could be right but it seems to me the Stormcloaks are very stubborn.

Internet, serious business lol.

The Dominion leaving is from UESP

4E-180 The second treaty of Stro M'Kai is signed
Having been fought to a standstill by the Redguards, the Aldmeri Dominion withdraws from Hammerfell

This is true. And you know, it's one thing I've come to love about this forum: most everyone (with a couple of REALLY notable exceptions....) is while pretty firmly planted in his or her own mindset, still happy to allow that others' mindsets can be, will be, and ARE just the opposite. It's QUITE refreshing - my last forum for a game (and I left it over a year back) was the WoW CSF.... *shudder*

The thing is the Thalmor cannot completely eradicate Talos worship even with the WGC. They can't trust the Empire to enforce it for them, so they have to enforce it themselves. And even then, they won't be able to find every single Talos worshipper in Skyrim. It seems like they are trying to conquer the remaining provinces first and using the Talos ban to stir unrest. Once in control, they will be able to kill anyone they even suspect of worshipping Talos.

Also, is it written in the WGC that the Thalmor are not allowed to persecute nobles or soldiers in the legion? Because so far I've only seen your average farmer or peasant being escorted along the road by justicars.

Did they, really? I've said it before, but it bears repeating: the Thalmor armies were eradicated in the battles for the IC and at Stros M'Kai, so there is no basis in fact for the claims that the Empire risked destruction if it refused to sign the WGC. Yes, the Legions were pretty much trashed, however there is no indication that the Thalmor still have any land forces whatsoever. Granted there is a nigh-total lack of intelligence concerning the actual current troop strength of the Dominion, however I'd be willing to bet it's nowhere near what a lot of people claim; after all, if they were still that powerful they wouldn't have bothered offering a treaty since they could have rolled the Empire at will.

@L33ty:

There's no such provision, to my knowledge, however in feudal systems the nobility is generally 'off limits' unless they do something really egregious. Also, the ones in areas the Thalmor have access to are Empire loyalists, so carting them off would be considered an act of war regardless of their validity as targets.

We don't know that the imperials wouldn't attack if Baalgruuf sided with the stormcloaks.

I don't think they don't need to completely eradicate it, though that's what they plan to do according to MK. All they really need is to weaken him.
Does it matter?

The nobles are expected to show up at Elenwen's parties or suffer the political consequences. Right now the imperial jarls are the Thalmor's allies. They don't need to persecute them.

But the Empire and the Jarls loyal to them aren't allies with the thalmor. And isn't it more likely the Thalmor are worried about inciting another war if they decide to persecute nobles and soldiers?

I felt guilty on my one and only Stormcloak character after making Balgruuf surrender.

I also felt bad the first time I finished the Imperial questline too:

In referrence to that theRed, Tullius is telling her in soldier speak that 'I'll pretend that you didn't say that'. He's as much a Talos worshipper as her or Ulfric, but he's also a consummate professional and doesn't let his emotions get in the way of his assigned task. A cold man, but one who knows how to get things done, not to mention I'm actually impressed by the fact he hates giving speeches, and when he does give one, he keeps it simple and to the point.