Heh...well at least I have "someone" who knows what I'm talking about.

You guys that are complaining must skip through a lot of the dialogue...because I'm able to track down the quests locale and details based solely on what was said when speaking to the quest giver themselves.

Than fix the directions in the game instead of just removing them. Removing something isnt' always a solution.

It can be fixed, it can be made better but Bethesda refuses to do it. That is the problem we have. If the problem couldn't be fixed, that would be different.

The quest compass is the lazy way out of fixing a legitiment problem with the game and Bethesda refuses to lift a finger to fix the problem.

You can also use clairvoyance spell to lead you to quests. Now you're using a spell, and boom, game immersion realized =)

Here's a couple basic examples for starters:

* NPC: "Can you please find me 10 and bring them to me?" - NO compass marker, no map marker.
* NPC: "Can you please kill 10 X for me?" - NO compass marker, no map marker.


Here are a few more advanced examples:

* A note in an empty house says: "I hope to recover the lost amulet of McGuffin and plan to start my search near Windhelm". - NO compass marker, no map marker.
* An excerpt from an old book in a dungeon: "...some say the ghost of McGuffin still exists all the way back from the reign of Lord X who banished him". - NO compass marker, no map marker.
* A couple NPCs on the side of the road, "Hey we're on our way to the wedding at Solitude bearing great gifts". - NO compass marker, no map marker.
* An old map in an NPC's house with details to an X marks the spot treasure. - NO compass marker, no map marker.

I've received quests like these. Yes, some are simple fetch quests, but others are advanced quests requiring thought and investigation.

I think what people confuse is how they're defining "quests". If you think a quest has to come from directly from some NPC and a journal entry, you need to think outside the box. Quests need not be that direct. I suppose that's a holdover from the 1 dimensional way that Morrowind gave quests. Skyrim is far more dynamic.

Agreed. I've also run across a slew of quests gotten from hearsay that don't even pop up in misc quests, picked them up from books, etc.
Of all the things to complain about this seems pretty absurd. So, the npc's don't give you voiced directions? What are you gonna do, sit there with a notepad and write it down, then go out and look for the third oak tree up the hill to make a left? Why is that desirable? If you just wander the world and explore places you come to you'll eventually find the place, if you don't want to follow a quest marker.
Also, can you even navigate without the compass? does the sun rise in the east and set in the west (which it doesn't really do on earth anyway, but....)?
And, let's say you're following directions and you get turned around after a battle or coming out of a dungeon- then what? Toggle the quest inactive and ignore the compass- or tape over it on your tv or something.
This is just one of those over-the-top realism gripes about the game that I find questionable. If you want things to be really realistic, why don't you just live your life? You complain about not being given voiced directions and having a hud and gps, but don't complain that you can shoot fire out of your hands or kill mythical creatures? Come on, people!

BTW, real men don't ask for directions!

You're missing the entire friggin point of my post. Good grief, now I understand why some of you are not seeing these non-marked quests I've come across. If you haven't the reading comprehension to understand what I'm getting across, I guess I shouldn't be surprised you fall back on "we don't want to disable quest markers".

Hello??? There are LOADS AND LOADS AND LOADS AND LOADS of quests with NO MARKERS!!!

If I'm playing a warrior that doesn't use spells than it doesn't work.

Why should I be forced to use a spell for something that could be easily added to the game and make it that much more immersive?



And there are double or more of quests that do need markers. I haven't played the main quest yet, but I'm willing to bet that there isn't one quest during the main quest that doesn't use the GPS.

EVERY SINGLE QUEST should be able to be completed without the GPS, that isn't the case. That is the problem.

Exactly what I'm talking about.

I think the problem with these complainers is that they've gotten used to the idea that a "quest" has to come from some dude with a big exclamation point on his head or something from World of Warcraft. The best quests in Skryim are the subtle ones, the ones that you pick up off the beaten track - and there are lots of them.

In this sense, Morrowind is closer to WoW than Skyrim is.

Sure, some directions were a bit dodgy, but I think they are overstated. Some people just read too fast, look for the wrong thing, or just plain miss the landmark. Just remember the Dwemer puzzle box... How many youtube videos or walkthroughs on forums? Yet it wasn't hard to find, on a shelf in the first ''room'' of the ruin. But people immediately figured that if they were to enter a ruin, they had to go all the way through it, even if the enemies get increasingly hard and it's the actual first mission of the main quest. It was a simple fetch quest, but people ran straight through the thing and then went looking everywhere in vain. But it's not because some directions were dodgy that they couldn't improve them too...

But, I wouldn't mind quest markers all that much, or more appropriately, map markers. And not necessarily the exact location too. The guy could tell you ''it's around here'' and without any hud markers, you have to go there and then look around. Or still get an accurate marker, but with real directions, rather than the implied ''just go in straight line in the wilderness''.

But I think one of the main problem with this, or what will disable this from ever being fixed appropriately is voiced dialogues. Voiced dialogues, not what you hear people saying, but when you press A (or whatever button) to talk to someone with the dialogue options, this should be voiceless. As much as a fully voiced game is more realistic, some acting is always dodgy, and often you feel the character is speaking too slowly, that you're like ''get over with it'', particularly with non-important stuff. One of the reasons we have less quests, less involved quests, less NPCs and less dialogue options is because of the voice acting. There's a [censored]load of voice overs to do, some lines are acted by more than one actor and all, so they save whenever they want. This makes the inn owner talk to you about how the bartender acts, when he's actually dead, why someone who almost got murdered acts as if nothing happened when you talk to her. This is also why some quest steps are entirely cut to save on dialogue and make sure you have an appropriate number of quests, etc. As much as anyone can see non-voiced dialogues as a step backward, it's problems are obvious. Some people might say every NPC in Morrowind said the same thing, but that's only appearances. They say a [censored]load of more unique lines than Oblivion and Skyrim combined I'm sure. And those who said unique things didn't have markers on their heads.

If you can explain how a Radiant Quest can have accurate in game directions when the destination is variable, your location at the time of getting the quest can be variable can be implemented in the game, then I am sure Todd will give you a job. And, no the answer is not to provide every possible set of directions to every possible destination from every possible starting point.

It's a little bit more than lifting a finger I would think.

You can remove the quest compass.. you just go into the display settings and turn the HUD transparency all the way up. The only problem is that it also removes the cross-hairs.

The very last word I would use to describe anything in Skyrim, would be lazy. That kind of over-the-top hyperbole doesn't help your argument.

I mean, every time I go into a dungeon I'm just blown away at the time, effort and love put into it. You can disagree with a design decision, but there is nothing lazy about this game. Period.

Quest Giver = Go to (insert cave name here) and find my sword

Me = OK, where is this cave located?

Quest Giver = Here, let me draw you a map.

Quest Giver hands map over and I open it up and I have a map to the cave.

It's that simple for the quests that aren't raidant.

Now you do bring up a valid point, raidant quests would have that problem. Guess what? Those programmers get paid big bucks for fixing those kinds of problems. They have 4-5 more years to fix the problem, I doubt one minute will be spend one it.

At the very least they can give me directions for those quests that aren't raidant.

Remember the cool journal we had written in first-person in Morrowind?

God, that was sixy. :sadvaultboy:

''Quests'' without quest givers are not unique of Skyrim, they were present in Oblivion and maybe in Morrowind, but I don't really remember. At least you had quests without journal entries that were you just getting curious over a rumor you heard from someone. And we are talking about actual, proper quests. Sure you can consider them quests, but it's more like a ''personal quest'' with no actual reward. They require no NPC interaction, which is the whole point of the debate here. I wouldn't even consider the treasure maps quests, or notes about someone being attacted by bandits who too her family amulet, but the note was on the person's body and the worthless amulet on the bandits you just killed. There's neat bits like these, but hardly what could be called a proper quest.

Ironic that people call Skyrim's map markers, "hand holding", but Morrowind's journal "hand holding" is considered sixy.

It's a novice spell - and classes don't exist in this game.

Every single quest can be completed without the GPS, so in effect, you just invalidated your complaint.

There's no difference. A quest is a quest.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest

I can do that with or without a NPC interaction.

Really? REALLY? Have you actually played this [censored] game?

Here's an example. Was talking to one of the new members of the College of Winterhold, the Nord. Told me he made a bad trade with Enthir and wanted my help. I talked to Enthir and he said he'll fix the situation if I go fetch him his staff. All he said was that he sold it to the wrong person - he did not tell me who this person was, or where I could find him. I figured it might be the Dark Elf in the Jarl's house, because that guy asked me to get him a staff to help him keep up appearances, and I said no - so maybe he went looking somewhere else. But nope, wasn't him. So I went back to the College and talked to every [censored] NPC. Nobody had any relevant dialogue options. So I went to the few places in the city of Winterhold that had people in them and talked to every [censored] NPC. Again, nobody had any relevant dialogue options. At this point I was absolutely exasperated, so I decided to turn on the quest marker. Turns out the guy was half-way across the map, North of Falkreath. Apparently, I supposed to [censored] divine his location...

This is only one example of many. I can give you so many more examples where you're basically [censored] if you don't use the marker.

I don't care what kind of spell it is. I'm playing a character that doesn't use spells, yeah I'm ROLE PLAYING an RPG... GOD FORBID I attempt to do that.

So I'll say it again, I can't complete every quest without the GPS.

How was it hand holding?

Oblivion/Skyrim Journal: Follow this handy dandy GPS from 2011 straight to your target!

Morrowind Journal: Yesterday, I met a very odd man named Jeremy. He told me that if I helped him recover a family ring from a thief who stole it from him that he would reward me. Apparently the thief is hiding in Black Rock Cave, which can be reached by following the road north from Seyda Neen and taking a left at the first fork in the road.




Hm...

One hand-holds me with a marker, the other hand-holds me with a whole bunch of text detailing me exactly where I need to go.

Real men make notes on their own scratch paper if they need to remember something.

We cant' even take down directions in Skyrim because there are none. How can I write something down when it's given to me?

Also, since this is an RPG and since I'm role playing the character I'm role playing the fact that the character wrote down those directions.

It's called IMMERSION.

Nobody said you couldn't, i'm just pointing out the difference between inability and self-made restriction. So when you use the word "can't" you sound like an idiot because really what you mean is you CHOSE NOT to. End of the day, Bethesda gave you the tools to play how you choose to. A warrior that decides to never use spells and literally walks across these lands would die of old age in his journey to complete all the quests. If you're really trying to RP a warrior then likely you'd start the game, follow the main quest, maybe join sides with the imperials or stormcloaks, likely help out the companions guild and call it a day. This would vastly truncate your experience to that of a simple warrior...but that isn't the case. The case is you're a DragonBorn prophesized to herald a new era in the lands. You are capable of nearly every and anything the world has to offer and even start with a mana pool and points in spell-based skills.

So, are you really role-playing or simply handicapping your experience to make an argument?