To me, no recognized options is NOT freedom, but an insult. Without an origin, the character DOES NOT exist as far as a 'who they were' thing is concerned.

So the ex-enclave background work well in Fallout 2?

Only FO:NV has broken from the mold of a predetermined character backstory, and that is more because it is insignificant to the role Benny and the Chip plays. You feel forced to focus on Shaun... how is that any different than the situation with Benny, every conversation is about finding out where he went.

Yeah, Beth could really take pointers from Pillars of Eternity and DA:O on how to make proper origins.

that is based on a circumstance, not your origin. You got shot, now you need to find that [censored] and get revenge, not he same as "my family is missing and I need to find them". I already mentioned that NV was different than all other Fallouts, I never said "ooh F2 didn't have this problem" as a matter of fact I listed recent TES games as how to do it right

how is forced origin more free than no origin? Do you tell everyone you meet your life story? I assume not as that is an annoying social habit.


Having the CHOICE to choose your origin is objectively better than being FORCED to have 1 linear origin. That is the very definition of freedom...choice...which F4 lacks

But your origin is completely irrelevant to the outcome, there is a complete narrative disconnect. I think it's one of the reasons that I find the story behind FO:NV to be the weakest... I just don't care that much about Benny or the chip. And while I really don't care that much about Shaun either (and haven't pursued that storyline in my latest playthrough) I can see the stronger narrative arc through the game.

The Elder Scrolls games have the additional issue of squeezing in completely different species into the same story. Even then I would say the 'you are a prisoner' is starting to wear a bit thin, especially if you play as a good character.

I'm loving the game, already put in over twice the total time that NV managed to get me to play. It's seeming lie I'm going to get more play time than 3 gave me too. (600 hours in 3's GOTY edition.)

Your "origin" can be very relative to the outcome depending on the choices you make during the game (ie. ex-NCR trooper as your origin>go the NCR route etc.).

As for the prisoner thing, I think it's fine since in TES it's pretty easy to imagine innocent people ending up in chains, it doesn't restrict you in any way.

No player origin is always better than forced origin. I hate how Fallout 3, 4, and Skyrim do this. "YOU ARE DA DRAGONBORN EVERY PLAYTHROUGH" "YOU GOTTA FIND DAAAAD" "YOU GOTTTA FIND SHAAAUUUN"


Thank god for mods where I can create my own stories.

why does your origin need to affect the outcome? i would love to know why? Instead of forcing you to do stuff based on origin, NV let you do what you want and choose your side based on exprerience...ya know like real life.


If you join the Institute in F4 it is because of Shaun, if you join the BoS it is because you are mad at the Institute, etc. It is forced garbage that never benefits the player's creativity.


Also the prisoner thing is brilliant for TES. In some of the games you can ask why you are imprisoned and it always leaves it unknown which can imply you were innocent and just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is a fully open backstory that every game that attempts player freedom should try

Yep. A questionable definition coming from an American dictionary (but all right, it is a dictionary), and yet there's still no mention of humour. And let's not forget how you keep ignoring what I said in my first response to your ... accusations, and that is that probably every video TB has ever made, including the one linked, completely and unquestionably contradicts that argument of yours.

Edit: Of course, there's no mention of "only looking for the worst things either, but I'm not going to argue the difference between that and "having a negative outlook". I hope you understand.)

Err, but being the Dragonborn was kind of the premise of Skyrim :S . Not to mention that it didn't really constrict your imagination in terms of origins of your character (unless I'm forgetting something), people instantly knowing you're the dragonborn aside.

No, and I'm not sure why you came to that conclusion.

I like the game but it's hard to disagree with what TB said.

Because it could change the outlook on the situation at hand? If I was a member of the BoS sent to find the Mojave Chapter, only using the courier gig as a cover from the NCR, why should I car about Benny and the platinum chip? At the time, my character has no clue what it is, so it is not that important to them. Same thing with Shaun, if I had a backstory where I had no reason to care about Shaun.

Well, here's the Oxford definition. http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/cynic

Same meaning just explained differently.

Maybe if the guy didn't start his so called "review" with blatant lies he might sound a little credible, but when stating the game is a complete buggy mess.. well, that throws credibility out the window.

Circumstance! He shot you, whether you decide to take vengeance on him is up to you. You can experience a monolithic ton of NV without ever going to find Benny, whereas you have to track Kellog to even get the BoS to fly the Prydwen into the Commonwealth in F4

But the origin is only relative to your own justification. The game doesn't make any causal link to the fact your backstory was ex-NCR. You could just as easily say ex-NCR deserter joined the Legion. The game doesn't care.

I'm not saying the prisoner thing is bad but in danger of becoming clichéd. Given the range of species it would be hard to consider the workload to generate specific origins for every one.

Having an origin that is tied into the core quest strengthens the narrative structure.
I felt grounded with a clear sense of direction in FO 1,2,3 & 4. Not so much in FO:NV (some of that may be due to windows 10 fighting the save games), I could have any background I wanted and it felt bland and empty. But of course that's subjective and may suggest we are looking for different things from the game. In some respects it's similar to the difference between Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale. Similar games in so many ways but Baldurs Gate only allowed you to make your character while the companions were premades (and even then the character had a set origin) whereas Icewind Dale allowed you to make all of the group members. Tactically I preferred Icewind Dale but I remember so little about the story other than it might have been set near a place called 'Icewind Dale' on the other hand there's still a very real danger of Baldur's Gate quotes getting used at the gaming table 'Much butt kicking for goodness.'

Again, the open structure for TES is needed because of the sheer variety you would otherwise have to make specific origins for.

so you have not played much or watch others play much of Fallout 4 I take it. It is super buggy. I was stuck in the Vault for 5 hours he first time I played, I loaded the auto and even recreated my character so many times and still could not leave the vault. I had to hard reset my Xbox to get it to work and then upon trying to create a new character later i experienced the same issue.


Fallout 4 is buggy as hell, fact

Every AAA game has issues for a small percentage of users, even everybody's darling Witcher 3. That doesn't make it a super buggy game. NV was a super buggy game, still highly regarded to this day.

I know, Oxford dictionary is my go-to dictionary. You think that's the same? Have you tried...reading it?

And yeah, while F4 had a better release than other BGS games in terms of bugs, but compared to the uh... industry average, it is a buggy mess. Relatively speaking, obviously. But sure, if you're looking for an excuse to dismiss any criticism, you can dismiss that as well. All the reports of buginess from various places, including videos, are clearly blatant lies!

I think he has some valid points, I'm subscribed to his channel even. That said, I've thoroughly enjoyed my 256 hours of Fallout 4. If you want an experience similar to Fallout 1/2 check out Wasteland 2. I also enjoyed my 108 hours in Wasteland 2. Find what you enjoy and play. Anything anyone else says is just sound waves emitted from a meat sack attached to a neural network or, more often today, pecked out using meat beaks. That includes this text pecked out by yours truly, a slightly odorous bacteria covered sack of cells.

I'm playing on Xbox and have only come across a couple noticeable bugs...the MacCready perk and items sinking into surfaces.

While I thought that the storyline for FNV lost a lot of steam once I found Benny, starting out as the Courier is the best character origin of *any* of the Fallout titles from any of the companies involved. I *liked* not having things like families forced onto me, or having to have been a tribal or a vault dweller. It allowed me to really make my character my *own* and then put that character into the story. It's also why I very much love the prisoner origins in the TES games. It was up to *me* to decide why I was a prisoner.

I mostly agree with what you say, it's just that the premade origin in FO4 just restricts everything so much that it's annoying to me, it annoys me specifically because I'm predisposed about the freedom I usually have in a Fallout or TES game. I would have preferred a blank slate in place of this.

What I would have preferred even more is something along the lines of what Pillars of Eternity gave you as options for an origin. For instance you could be a former merchant, noble, who believed in a certain god etc. Stuff like that could easily be changed to Fallout terms, like ex-raider, scientist, ncr trooper and so on. And depending on your choice you would get extra dialogue options, different treatment from certain NPCs or factions and the list can keep going.

TB's criticism of FO4 is the issue for some, the problem being someone has the temerity to point out issue's they have had, with a work that others hold in reverence. Thus the act of criticism is the issue, rather than the points raised. FO4 IS NOT a sacred anything, it is a game many of us enjoy, some more than others. Although to those who hold FO4 in such reverence, never look in certain dark corners of the 'net (LL) because... Oh boy are there people with plans (sick, deviant and disgusting plans...)!

Just wait until someone ports those plans to consoles.....

yeah, that is why I compared NV to TES games (MW, OB, and Skyrim's specifically). Somehow Obsidian managed to use Bethesda's own thing to make a better game in Beth's series...ironic