Also, even if they did do that to the new areas, it wouldn't have been enough for me. I think I stated before, in my massive post earlier in the thread, and in my review, that I had a lot of issues with the mediocre story, bugs and design flaws, random encounters, total lack of choice and consequence etc.

UGH, NO WAY, dead money was AWFUL, i did not like Old world blues, Lonesome road and Honest hearts were magazine though...

They can at least be as good as their predessesors. Oblivion had issues, but there was tons of npc dialogue and much more rpg depth. I'm still finding new things about the secret lives of npcs, new dialogue, new reactions npcs have to my choices etc.

That's part of Dead Money's charm. Half the people that play it hear their collar beep, run into the middle of the room, spin around going "UUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH...." trying to locate the radio, then get their heads blown off.
Those of us that DON'T do that get to enjoy the fireworks while being provided with a nice, thought-provoking challenge tied in with an incredibly well-written story.


As for Dawnguard, it's nice to see people commenting in this thread and saying "the Soul Cairn is so boring, dull and empty." My thoughts exactly on much of Skyrim's landmass, hence why I'm always arguing for more dialog, quests, and better storylines. Good to see people experiencing how I feel about Skyrim for once.

but then people complained about repetitive voices and mindless dialogue (I met a mudcrab, horrible creatures)
reactions? such as? "By the gods, there's a psycopath on the loose!"

That problem is worse in skyrim! I explained this on another thread so I'll repost it here:

"Yeah. I remember when guards had tons of dialogue based on player actions. I'm still finding new stuff in Oblivion. If you're an infamous criminal they'll celebrate if you surrender. If you've ever murdered someone, they'd ridicule you: "You....I've seen your kind before. You've got blood on your hands.....keep your blade sheathed you murdering bastard, or I'll put you down myself!" If you got them to like you, they'd let you go for minor crimes. Jail wardens actually had their own dialogue and would guard you. Evey npc would praise your actions after you completed major tasks. It wasn't perfect though. You actually felt like your actions had consequence, even if it was just roleplay. Scripted conversations were mostly the same, but it was better than skyrim because said dialogue wasn't constantly being said wherever you go, removing you from the experience. Morrowind and Oblivion were just deeper games in that regard. It wasn't perfect, but skyrim could have improved upon it. What do the guards do in skyrim? Same stock responses for everything. They never talk to each other, I'm not even sure if they switch shifts (they might). Jail wardens direct you to general goods stores even though you're a prisoner. These are all little things, but they came together to make the game feel more authentic and full of life. Skyrim just feels hollow at times, like it's just smoke and mirrors fooling you into thinking its deeper than it is."

-Quote from http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1387018-why-does-what-you-do-have-zero-impact-on-the-game-part-2/

My favorite is when a guard kills somebody (bandit, character that's supposed to die for a quest, that lady that gets murdered by the Forsworn and then her killer is killed) and then proceeds to say "I'm going to find whoever did this!"

My point exactly! How can anyone say Skyrim did BETTER in this regard?

I personally enjoyed the dlc, but it is definitely not worth $20. I just cannot fathom how Bethesda managed to think that was the price tag worth for this dlc. I have never spent that much on an add on for a game only to get half of my money's worth of content. Like i said, i enjoyed it a lot, but I'm seriously hating myself for spending $20 on it. I wish i would have waited for a sale in a few months or something.

Agreed. I still think, for what we got, that it was buggy, had a mediocre story, and had design flaws. If those aspects were improved, I would have gladly spent money on it. Maybe not 20 bucks' worth but still.

I come from a FPS shooter background and I'm usually always getting DLC for those types of games. I never really feel ripped off for the money i spend on those games except for a few COD games because they usually give you a legitimate value for your money. The max i could see myself paying for dawnguard would have been $10 or MAYBE $15 if i was just too impatient. Like you said, the story just wasn't really there, and it was a little buggy. I know the new vampire form and werewolf perks are the heart of the DLC, and that's what most should expect to get out of it, but it just wasn't worth $20.

Yeah. I'd pay 15 maybe if they fixed all the above issues while still giving the same small amount of content. The vampire lord form was fun, but the ceilings are all too low for him....even the dungeons they made for us in dawnguard. Meaning they obviously tested these places with the lord, and knew this was a problem, but couldn't be bothered to alter the dungeons or give the lord a little "crouch" animation when walking under things

Dawnguard was (and is) a worthy addition to Skyrim, in my opinion- however, that is not to say that it's not without any flaws. Overall, this DLC is good, but by the standards of much of Bethesda's material (the TES games anyway- I've never played the Fallout games) it just isn't good enough I'm afraid; thus, I think the asking price of ~￡14.00 is a tad too much; maybe ￡10-12 would've been more appropriate.

So, in brief, my review of Dawnguard would be: (WARNING: POTENTIAL SPOILERS)

- Good character development with Serana throughout the main quest- but for Sithis' sake, let us marry her!

- The main quest itself was a bit short and had a disappointingly easy and abrupt ending, whilst both the Dawnguard and Vampire quest-lines were essentially exactly the same except for slightly different dialogues (which, to be honest, rather annoyed me- it revealed an inherent laziness from the developers which I do not expect from an Elder Scrolls DLC).

- The extra content such as crossbows, vampire armour, boat trips from Dawnstar, extra Falmer armour, more destruction, conjuration and restoration spells etc were (and are) nice additions- as well as the higher level dragon which actually provide a big challenge to my Level 71 Imperial Legend!

- The Soul Cairn and Forgotten Vale were, well, ok- but, as other people have suggested, they were a bit too empty and bland (not enough was happening in each, especially the former). That being said, if the developer's aims were to make the Soul Cairn a depressing, mysterious and ominous land- then they did a good job here.

- And, just because I need to mention it again- let us marry Serana!

So, all in all, a good addition to an already brilliant game- a solid 8/10 is a fair score I say, so IGN were pretty accurate in that case.

wait, how do you know we get boat trips from dawnstar???you mean the northern coast off of solitude??

Yeah, in Dawnstar next to the Mythic Dawn cult guy's house there is a man sitting on a rowing boat offering a boat ride (kind of like the horse carriages I suppose); although I've never actually used it, to be honest. And, as far as I'm aware, this boat service has only appeared since I downloaded Dawnguard.

does it take you to the vampire castle??because there is another boat that does that.

As I said, I haven't used it yet- so I'm not entirely sure, but it may take you to a variety of locations; possibly the East Empire Company Docks, who knows? I'll use it next time I play Skyrim and see where it can take you.

So far I'm really enjoying Dawnguard. Playing any Elder Scrolls game is much more enjoyable by roleplaying your character... and not just play it to achieve an end like defeat Alduin or be the guild leader. Read the journals and books. Develop patterns and setups for your character's behavior. Carry a good-luck charm of some sort. Play a character who doesn't ever wear clothes except for an iron helmet, if it's your thing.

Am I the only person to notice that forks, knifes and spoons in dwemer ruins are more common in dwemer ruins after the Dawnguard download? I've noticed many things that have changed, or that I didn't notice before, but this isn't the spoilers section.

In the meantime, the Dovakhin Anvel, dunmer, is happy knowing his range of tableware isn't limited to the wooden ladel.

I read this quote as "it will be almost like an expansion, but not quite."

If he meant it to be like a full on expansion, he would say "it's an expansion.", not, "They'll feel closer to an expansion.".

If they were to feel closer to an expansion, but not quite an expansion? Then I believe Dawnguard did a good job.
If he said it's an expansion pack out right? Then Dawnguard didn't deliver. But he didn't say Dawnguard was a full on expansion.

What I saw was:
*Almost like an expansion
*Meater DLC
*Between KOTN and SI
*SI will be bigger

These things he stated. I don't know how people got full on expansion out of that. If it was out of that quote you gave us? I sure as heck didn't get that either. Like I said, I got "This is not quite an expansion; It'll feel close, though."

You may interpret the quote that way, but that's not what he said. He said it would feel like an expansion, I could understand if it was a a LITTLE less so. He kept talking about how "packed" this expansion was. Does it feel like an expansion to you? Even a slightly smaller one? An expansion worth twenty dollars? My family's been in the marketing industry for a while now. Companies KNOW what they're doing when they say things like that. Teasing, baiting, heavily implying, being JUST vague enough to cover their butts. This is, to me at least, what obviously happened here. Is it our fault for falling for their tricks? Maybe, but it doesn't make their actions any better.

One review gave it a good score and write up, the more negative review accurately described what it was which for some reason seemed unacceptable to the reviewer. I brought Dawnguard for more Skyrim to add to my game, I was never expecting it to be like some other game, a new game, something revolutionary, or a completely different experience to Skyrim, I was happy with what I got. Any developer is going to hype their creation to the skies, it is their baby and they are proud of it. Seems to me Dawnguard is being trashed by some because they were expecting it to be something else other than DLC. The Knights of the Nine was an expansion, it still felt like more Oblivion to me. An expansion just adds more to the game does it not? You are not buying an entirely different game. For DLC Dawnguard seemed value for money, the things are usually not that cheap anyway, and it added new areas, factions, story and quests. Would be nice if the second was more like Shivering Isles, or at least an entirely new location for us to explore, but I am not holding my breath. And something more like Shivering Isles is going to cost a lot more than 1600MP since it is more like a new game, than just some extra content for the main game.

so i took the boat from dawnstar and it can take you to solitude, windhelm or near the vampire castle.

Knights of the nine was an addon, not an expansion. Shivering Isles was Oblivion's expansion.

I think what people are misunderstanding here is that Dawnguard is supposed to be an add-on, not an expansion. I think TH could have chosen his words more carefully on some of his quotes. But on other of his quotes, it's quite obvious, Dawnguard was meant to be a large add-on. Not an expansion. Hence the whole "in between KOTN and SI." comparisons. Also "it's a DLC that's going to feel closer to an expansion." "Meater DLC."

Quotes like that lead me to believe that this was supposed to be a large scale add-on. That's how I took it anyway... Never, in any of his interviews, did I get the impression that this was going to rival SI, or that it was going to be an expansion. I could see how people could see how interrupt his quotes into "expansion!!"... Some of his interviews, video or not, he could have been worded better.

But when you say that you're completely reducing any well thought out, valid complaints to 'I thought it'd be bigger so I hate it.'

I get that Dawnguard isn't an expansion. I didn't expect it to be. And yet, it's still disappointing in that it's simply more of the same. Now, more of the same = more Skyrim, the game we all fell in love with last year, so it's not as if Dawnguard is omg a total piece of garbage. But Dawnguard just never wowed me, never felt like I got my $20.

There are undoubtedly people out there who expected Shivering Isles and were let down, but it's not everybody.