Two Dawnguard Reviews (Kotaku, IGN)

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:46 pm

But when you say that you're completely reducing any well thought out, valid complaints to 'I thought it'd be bigger so I hate it.'

I get that Dawnguard isn't an expansion. I didn't expect it to be. And yet, it's still disappointing in that it's simply more of the same. Now, more of the same = more Skyrim, the game we all fell in love with last year, so it's not as if Dawnguard is omg a total piece of garbage. But Dawnguard just never wowed me, never felt like I got my $20.

There are undoubtedly people out there who expected Shivering Isles and were let down, but it's not everybody.

Hey, that's your opinion dude. Respect. For me? It's the experience. I'm enjoying the experience, I can care-less about the size of the expansion if the experience it offers ME, is worth it. I've paid 1200 points for a game that lasted 8 hours (excellent game). 800 points that lasted 20 (good game). 1600 that lasted 6 (loved this game). 400 that lasted 30 (GOOD DEAL!!!..hated this game). You get the point. The 400 point game was just not worth it to me...I tried to like it (Arkadian Warriors...Most of the time I sat there just running in circles...probably could have beat it faster, but I hated the game).

That's why I don't look at the msp value on content. If it's worth it, to me, then it's all good. As for Arkadian Warriors? I'm sure somebody liked the 50% off deal and loved every minute of that game...I sure as heck didn't. $5 wasted, and wish I had back (take my 200 achievement score too, please).
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Cheville Thompson
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:56 pm

For me the size wasn't what bothered me. I'd go on my rant again but you've all heard (or read) it before I think. I had a lot of problems with it though, as explained in my earlier, really long post on the first or second page of this thread, and in my "review" of the game. It wasn't a bad dlc, but it has a lot of problems with story, design choices, bugs, and a lack of choice and consequece ( a "feature" that's been the bane of this series since Skyrim released) that svcked me out of the experience time and again.
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Javaun Thompson
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:56 pm

For me the size wasn't what bothered me. I'd go on my rant again but you've all heard (or read) it before I think. I had a lot of problems with it though, as explained in my earlier, really long post on the first or second page of this thread, and in my "review" of the game. It wasn't a bad dlc, but it has a lot of problems with story, design choices, bugs, and a lack of choice and consequece ( a "feature" that's been the bane of this series since Skyrim released) that svcked me out of the experience time and again.

Lack of choice and consequence...and feature only exclusive to Skyrim? How about Oblivion? Morrowind? Yea, Morrowind allowed to break the Main Quest and try a new way to complete it. It also had factions. Other than that? What choice and consequence was there? Daggerfall? I remember that being that pretty straight forward. I never played Arena....cannot comment.

TES never really allowed you do alter the storyline. With Morrowind, it allowed you take an alternate route to the same result. Same with the factions. Expansions? Same thing. Oblivion? Yea. Same thing. SI? Same thing. You had a choice between Dementia and Mania (found out, the choice really didn't matter...just gave you a power). You could help a couple of head strong power figures... Still, the result was the same in the end. Skyrim does the same exact thing here. You start some where, you have a web of choices along the way, meaningless ones, and at the end of the tunnel...they all lead to the same result.
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Bitter End
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Hahaha I think you misunderstood me. Maybe I was just being too hasty. I should have said the problem got worse in Skyrim. In Daggerfall and Morrowind, choices you made DID have an effect. Let me show you this quote when Daggerfall was being promoted:

"Reputation is the most important influencing factor in the game. Your reputation determines which people will talk to you, which quests you can get from a faction, have influence on buying/selling goods and services and, in case your skills are high enough, whether you can receive a promotion within the factions you have joined.

Your reputation can only be affected by doing quests. The outcome of a quest determines the gain or loss of reputation with the faction you got the quest from, as well as the effects on reputation with other factions. Many factions are aligned with a number of other factions, sometimes factions have allies as well as enemies too. In such cases your reputation gain or loss with the faction has an immediate influence on the reputation with the associates and its allies/enemies.

Regional reputation has apparently no influence on the way you are treated by the regional populace. It has however an influence on the justice of a region. When your regional reputation drops beyond a certain level the town guards will appear shortly after you enter a settlement and try to arrest you. If you are caught you will be accused of high treason, which will result in a severe punishment if the court finds you guilty. Even if the town guards arrest you for smaller crimes like lockpicking or vagrancy, the court will accuse you for high treason. There are several quests that lower your regional reputation for the duration of the quest, or if you fail, even after."

Were systems like these perfect? Heck no. But each game since has improved on some aspects and messed up others. Skyrim is, in my opinion, the first to scrap most of it and start from scratch to make a new system that would hopefully work better. A noble attempt that I think went wrong. To me, the game feels hollow.
TES has really become a contradiction onto itself. To me, it increasingly feels like a linear game in an open-world setting. Just going back one game, in Oblivion, I was exploring in the tall grass just north of Lake Rumare when 3 guards came running at me, swords drawn. They ran past me, in pursuit of a bandit that I wasn't aware of. I drew my sword and followed to assist them. It was a totally random incident, and it left me with the perceived feeling that I'm just walking around this living world where all this stuff is happening around me whether I'm there or not.

In contrast, I get the opposite feeling in Skyrim. Off in the distance, I see three people standing near a footpath, motionless. The other direction, a few more standing there not moving. They'll remain like that forever, or until I get close enough to activate their scripted calamity. 30 minutes into the game and the suspension of disbelief is already shattered. 30 minutes more and I'm running into several situations that felt strangely familiar. Oh yea, every preview columnist had the same experience and wrote all about it. Sorry, that's not an open-world game. When everyone is pretty much on the same Disney World ride, that's a linear game.

That personal observation, along with the abolishment of classes, skills, etc., all leaves me with the feeling that they're trying to shoehorn everyone into the same box. Like I said, it feels linear and static... and probably why I only put 30 hours into the game.

In Oblivion, your choices had less impact than morrowind and daggerfall, but you still felt like you were an actual person malong actual choices, living in a real world just based off of npc dialogue and their own personal lives. Yeah. I remember when guards had tons of dialogue based on player actions. I'm still finding new stuff in Oblivion. If you're an infamous criminal they'll celebrate if you surrender. If you've ever murdered someone, they'd ridicule you: "You....I've seen your kind before. You'vs got blood on your hands.....keep your blade sheathed you murdering bastard, or I'll put you down myself!" If you got them to like you, they'd let you go for minor crimes. Jail wardens actually had their own dialogue and would guard you. Evey npc would praise your actions after you completed major tasks. It wasn't perfect though. You actually felt like your actions had consequence, even if it was just roleplay. Scripted conversations were mostly the same, but it was better than skyrim because said dialogue wasn't constantly being said wherever you go, removing you from the experience. Morrowind and Oblivion were just deeper games in that regard. It wasn't perfect, but skyrim could have improved upon it. What do the guards do in skyrim? Same stock responses for everything. They never talk to each other, I'm not even sure if they switch shifts (they might). Jail wardens direct you to general goods stores even though you're a prisoner. These are all little things, but they came together to make the game feel more authentic and full of life. Skyrim just feels hollow at times, like it's just smoke and mirrors fooling you into thinking its deeper than it is.

So, hopefully you understand now what I meant when I made that post. Sorry for the long post haha. These are just my opinions.
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Victoria Vasileva
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:53 pm

I'm sorry, but I'd gladly pay 20 dollars JUST for the Vampire Lord form and Auriel's Bow. The expansion added a lot and that's what counts to me. I'm in it for the content, not really the storyline. Plus, there were two characters that you meet that also made it worth it, Geleborn(sp?) and a certain poor sod who got killed in Kvatch who you meet in the Soul Cairn.

Damn these reviews to Oblivion!
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candice keenan
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:33 pm

I'm sorry, but I'd gladly pay 20 dollars JUST for the Vampire Lord form and Auriel's Bow. The expansion added a lot and that's what counts to me. I'm in it for the content, not really the storyline. Plus, there were two characters that you meet that also made it worth it, Geleborn(sp?) and a certain poor sod who got killed in Kvatch who you meet in the Soul Cairn.

Damn these reviews to Oblivion!

actually it did not add a lot
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Isaiah Burdeau
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:50 pm

actually it did not add a lot

Fletching, revamps to Vampires and Werewolves, Crossbows, new spells to enchance Restoration, new shouts, a new mount, more conjuration spells, new weapons and armors, a hair stylist and more. I'd say it added a lot.
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Nuno Castro
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:09 am

Hey, that's your opinion dude. Respect. For me? It's the experience.

But do you realize the irony of that statement? You're the one trying to characterize any and all criticism of Dawnguard as 'you expected too much.'

You're happy with it, great. Other people aren't, and it isn't because they had unrealistic expectations.
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ILy- Forver
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:14 pm

Fletching, revamps to Vampires and Werewolves, Crossbows, new spells to enchance Restoration, new shouts, a new mount, more conjuration spells, new weapons and armors, a hair stylist and more. I'd say it added a lot.
fletching is only through the pc and they didnt even revamp werewolves, they barely added any perks of which you can only use 1 totem of something perk at a time.only 3 new shouts, and a hair stylist can easily be added in a update not dlc.
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Amy Cooper
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:29 pm

Lack of choice and consequence...and feature only exclusive to Skyrim? How about Oblivion? Morrowind? Yea, Morrowind allowed to break the Main Quest and try a new way to complete it. It also had factions. Other than that? What choice and consequence was there? Daggerfall? I remember that being that pretty straight forward. I never played Arena....cannot comment.

TES never really allowed you do alter the storyline. With Morrowind, it allowed you take an alternate route to the same result. Same with the factions. Expansions? Same thing. Oblivion? Yea. Same thing. SI? Same thing. You had a choice between Dementia and Mania (found out, the choice really didn't matter...just gave you a power). You could help a couple of head strong power figures... Still, the result was the same in the end. Skyrim does the same exact thing here. You start some where, you have a web of choices along the way, meaningless ones, and at the end of the tunnel...they all lead to the same result.

Didn't Daggerfall have like, six different endings?

Anyway, even though choice and impact weren't necessarily spectacular in The Elder Scrolls to begin with, it was never as bad as it is in Skyrim. Now, you barely get to make a choice of what factions you want or don't want to join (College of Winterhold, Thieves Guild) and the choice that you can make is made extremely shallow because the quest lines are no different (Dawnguard, Vampires). Not to mention how the dialogue took a massive hit from Oblivion to Skyrim.
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leni
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:46 pm

Morrowinds deep cerebral story.... LOL.
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Siobhan Thompson
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:10 pm

Dawnguard got a 8.0 on IGN last time I checked
Which is for IGN standards, pretty low, considering it comes from a major publisher. They gave to a complete turd like Dragon Age 2 a whooping 8.5
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Amy Masters
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:27 am

Fletching, revamps to Vampires and Werewolves, Crossbows, new spells to enchance Restoration, new shouts, a new mount, more conjuration spells, new weapons and armors, a hair stylist and more. I'd say it added a lot.

Yeah but I can see it being a little crap if you ain't a conjuration mage. Most of the things seemed in favour of that even the restoration spells on vampire side are for healing summons.
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Laura Tempel
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:01 am

honestly after reading 5-6 reviews of dawnguard I don't think I'm going go buy it I mean it's probably going to come out 2 months from now for ps3 and pc anyway I mean for $20 it seems overpriced from what I have read I think I will buy it if it goes on sale or there is a bundle of dlc's otherwise I'll probably just wait for the GOTY edition
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Sarah Edmunds
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:25 pm

I would say this DLC was like Point Lookout in FO3 and obviously not as big as SI :Oblivion people don't seem to understand that it was meant to give an entire "new" way to play the game as in go through all of skyrim again as a new character. IDk how people can't see it this way 0_o
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Rinceoir
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:09 pm


UGH, NO WAY, dead money was AWFUL, i did not like Old world blues, Lonesome road and Honest hearts were magazine though...

I really liked it. For me it was joint top with lonesome road - DM was FO going all survival horror, probably the only time ever in one of these games where I've feared confrontation, and at one point actually swallowed my pride and run for my life... And when it was over, it made me simultaneously feel glad, yet still go 'aw, I really CAN'T go back....'
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Manuela Ribeiro Pereira
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:01 pm

Basically, I don't think we will ever see a DLC at the standards of Shivering Isles again, unfortunately. SI was a brilliant expansion, it added tonnes of new content, enemies, settlements, an entire new region, new weapons (remember that awesome Dawn/Dusk Blade), new armours and much much more. I know that Dawnguard was not meant to be a whole new expansion like SI, but if we do get a big DLC then I doubt it'll be on par with SI- hopefully Bethesda will prove me wrong though.
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sas
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:01 pm

I read this quote as "it will be almost like an expansion, but not quite."

If he meant it to be like a full on expansion, he would say "it's an expansion.", not, "They'll feel closer to an expansion.".

If they were to feel closer to an expansion, but not quite an expansion? Then I believe Dawnguard did a good job.
If he said it's an expansion pack out right? Then Dawnguard didn't deliver. But he didn't say Dawnguard was a full on expansion.

What I saw was:
*Almost like an expansion
*Meater DLC
*Between KOTN and SI
*SI will be bigger

These things he stated. I don't know how people got full on expansion out of that. If it was out of that quote you gave us? I sure as heck didn't get that either. Like I said, I got "This is not quite an expansion; It'll feel close, though."

It's a marketing technique. Basically they ended up pairing Dawnguard with expansion and Shivering Isles. After saying similar lines comparing it with SI and saying it will have more content than KotN the customer will have "good" thoughts about Dawnguard causing them to be more likely to purchase it. This of course also leads to the customer expecting more out of the product, and in this case being unable to return it so Bethesda still gets your money. This technique doesn't work on everyone however.

On a side note you'll also see the same technique in political debates... :shrug:
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Lauren Dale
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:17 pm

honestly after reading 5-6 reviews of dawnguard I don't think I'm going go buy it I mean it's probably going to come out 2 months from now for ps3 and pc anyway I mean for $20 it seems overpriced from what I have read I think I will buy it if it goes on sale or there is a bundle of dlc's otherwise I'll probably just wait for the GOTY edition

if you really wanna play as a vampire lord id buy it, otherwise i'd wait until the GOTY edition comes out, your not missing out on anything important in Tamriel's history TBH.
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Karine laverre
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:04 am

It's a marketing technique. Basically they ended up pairing Dawnguard with expansion and Shivering Isles. After saying similar lines comparing it with SI and saying it will have more content than KotN the customer will have "good" thoughts about Dawnguard causing them to be more likely to purchase it. This of course also leads to the customer expecting more out of the product, and in this case being unable to return it so Bethesda still gets your money. This technique doesn't work on everyone however.

Well, in that case they forgot that two of the three platforms get it much later, and thus will be able to see trough this.

I keep liking this limited exclusivity the more all the time ^_^
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Scott Clemmons
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:48 pm

Well, in that case they forgot that two of the three platforms get it much later, and thus will be able to see trough this.

I keep liking this limited exclusivity the more all the time :happy:

Think of us as 'the meat shield' :D
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carla
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:45 pm

fletching is only through the pc and they didnt even revamp werewolves, they barely added any perks of which you can only use 1 totem of something perk at a time.only 3 new shouts, and a hair stylist can easily be added in a update not dlc.
WHAT?! fletching is on consoles now!!! They added 13 perks for werewolves, and adding 3 shouts plus 9 spells equals 12 spells, And Bethesda has ALREADY added stuff with free Updates they dont OWE us anything else.
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Gracie Dugdale
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:19 pm

fletching is only through the pc and they didnt even revamp werewolves, they barely added any perks of which you can only use 1 totem of something perk at a time.only 3 new shouts, and a hair stylist can easily be added in a update not dlc.

What? How could I tell you if Dawnguard did or didn't add something if I played on PC? I am playing through Dawnguard right now, I am in the city of Whiterun and I am crafting arrows.

Honestly, I wouldn't rank Dawnguard as "up there" with the Shivering Isles, but the fact that I sunk about 20 hours on the vampire side does say quite a bit. That's a lot more value for my money than I would get from the movies. I haven't even done the Dawnguard side either.
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adam holden
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:08 pm

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim---dawnguard
Not looking good :\
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Inol Wakhid
 
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Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:31 pm

very possible haha. On topic tho, I THINK Beth is losing their edge with RPG games. If they wanna divert to action/adventure they atleast should have( OPINION) good writers to make great stories. Or else you just have one lame ass game.
They have excellent story writers.
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Katy Hogben
 
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