Like I mentioned before, I'm always up for exploring more dungeons & hillsides. Of course, part of that is that the exploration is one of the primary things I play Beth games for. So just the exploration in and of itself is something I consider a "win", even if I don't find Unique Sword Of Uber Uberness Mk V at the end of the dungeon.


Whereas, I ended up using Dawnbreaker for 20 or 30 levels. Kept it improved with Smithing (alongside my "whatever material is currently best" Soul Trap sword) as one of my two main melee weapons. Was still using it when I retired the character at lv56.


Sorry to hear that. I generally feel that way whenever I'm exploring in Skyrim. And it's been rewarded - my main character found all sorts of great things in dungeons and chests (like the 50% fire resist Elven boots that she used for a long time).\

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Just had to say.... honestly, I find "unique model" more meaningful than power. Appearance is really important, to me at least. One of the things I was disappointed with Kingdoms of Amalur - yeah, there's dozens of sets of "unique" armor, but so much of it looks similar to everything else. (And then the crafted & generic enchanted gear literally all looks the same. There's like 4 or 5 models for each armor type, one for each material level. Bleh. Who cares that I could craft stuff that was stupidly better than any "rare" gear I could find - my character was just in ~4 armor skins for the entire game. )

People don't want god-like items; they want interesting items. They want to feel like actual treasure-hunters and explorers; Skyrim's problem is that with the exception of Blackreach the dungeons are uninteresting and the loot is boring.

For example, the Mentor's Ring wasn't that powerful (+10 Int/Will), but it had an interesting history and was a complete surprise to the people who found it. In Morrowind, you'd never know if the tomb you entered was really a tomb or a Daedric treasure-trove; in Skyrim you can pretty much be guaranteed if you enter a draugr tomb it will be a draugr tomb.

EDIT: As for KoA, the unique gear didn't have to be powerful. They has special models, had their own little histories and were generally a complete surprise to find. Amalur did loot drops well in that regard; crafting may be unbalanced as hell (but let's be fair, Amalur is easy) but you can't deny that uniques were actually unique.

Skyrim? Pfft. Almost all dropped or looted gear is X item of Y.

No it's not about being godlike. It's about finding unique items in the game world. They don't have to be overpowered. They just need to be a one of a kind item. Then they should be placed in a dungeon or somewhere out of the way where you might not normally look so when you do find it you get that "HOLY CRAP! THIS IS AMAZING!" moment. It makes loot hunting fun. As it stands there is very little of that in Skyrim as most of the loot found while exploring is generic trash.

don't know how anyone can find "truly unique" loot in Morrowind when all enchanted items can be recreated. Kinda funny when people bring up crafting when crafting also existed in Morrowind.

And no, not all dungeons are the same, not all of them has the same enemies, same loot, same wall.


Seriously all these complaints about lack of exploration seem to come from lack of effort.

Have to agree yet still disagree. Yes, the caves and barrows will usually mix it up with having a longer linear path, or different architectural look But you would still walk into an ancient nordic barrow, follow linear path killing draugrs, and spiders. Get to the final room, kill deathlord, loot chest (full of "Iron Sword of Blaze", and 69 gold coins), then walk upto the wall and learn a shout. Now i wouldn't really care about all of this, if people wouldn't emphasize that Skyrim's exploration is amazing. To me exploration was just a secondary thing that was fun to do when you wanted to go out and explore or role play. Now its the center of everything Elder Scrolls, when really the guilds, main quests, and side quests in the cities and interaction with other NPC's made you feel immersed. Along with the other rpg aspects the previous games used to have.

no, exploration was always the focus.
The differences between dungeons weren't that different either, especially since both Morrowind and Skyrim had their own fair share of unique, not-quest related dungeons. How about a ruined prison with ghosts inside. Keeps with secret rooms that contain secret treasure. Journal parts that tells the tale of other people who entered this place before you...

And I don't know about any of these fabled missing roleplaying elements, as main quests, side quests, guilds and NPCs still exist.

Haha keeps with secret treasure. Was that treasure really worth anything? and oh yes, a journal in almost every cave or barrow you go into. So unique.

And when i talk about main quest, side quests, guilds and interacting NPC's. I don't mean, " I used to be an adventurer like you, then i took an arrow to the knee." Not to mention the npc's you cant even interact with, even if its just asking about rumors. The Guild questlines are horrible. Side quests are bland. The main quest was predictable. And what do you get when you save the world from getting devoured? , of course. But wait, you still get to go look at the pretty mountains, and trees. As some wise forumer said on here and i've heard it more than once. Miles wide, a foot deep.

so what did those games added that you could not find in Skyrim?

Asking for different rumors and their names is not exactly "deep character interaction", dungeons weren't any more versatile, the quests were hardly better, all of the games nad their fair share of fetch and story quests, the main quest was predictable as it gets (Dagoth Ur is evil, you are the Neveraine? What a shocking revelation) and the only thing you get at the end of the main quest is a useless ring.

And yes, the secret treasure was worth it.

that's exactly how i look at unique items. and, a great aspect of morrowind.

finding that unique, one-of-a-kind item (not all-powerful one) in some hidden location and that great feeling you got.

Meanwhile, to me, the exploration's always been the main thing. Beth's quests/etc are pretty darn shalllow, and have been for a long time. The main things I expect when I hear the words "Elder Scrolls" are wide-open exploration and skills advanced by using them. Not deep questing or NPCs. Or cut-throat difficulty. And Skyrim delivered that - great world, plenty of amazing scenery, lots of holes in the ground to wander in and find loot to shove in my pack. A great big world to wander off and get lost in, same as OB and FO3. (That's not to say there aren't things that can be improved (UI, guild questline length, etc).

Her Hands armor is from the Tribunal expansion pack.

Tribunal is hands down the best official TES content ever created. It's been all downhill from there

Azura's star = worth it
Merhunes Razor = worth it, NOT for the loot but for the ability to farm Daedra

Yes, some of the special rewards kinda blow, but all games have this issue.

I think that random loot found should have a chance of it being smithing up some, as well as the possiblity of double enchants.

Would make it so people don't feel obligated to level enchant and smith.

Yeah it's like I have Dragon/Daedric and enchanted weapons, why should I bother going into caves anymore? What's my motivation?

I got Merhunes Razor and wanted to return it back to crap vending machine that gave it to me. Garbage unique weapon.

I've always found "because it's there" to be plenty of motivation. (ditto for climbing mountains and fording rivers....)

That works for many people. For me, I prefer Risk/Reward. Without any risk or reward, the motivation for exploration is gone. All that's left is storyline quests. Just feels weird that despite having not really done much of the main quest, I realized I have the best items in the game simply as a result of scaling.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I've been using Mehrune's Razor and Nightingale Armor while exploring, and Tavern Clothes or Emperor's Robes in town for the past 30 levels or so, and I still want to go new places, meet new people, and kill them, just because I can. I got the loot I want, and I still get excited to find new stuff even if I know I'll never use it.

At the very least all that stuff is done better in Morrowind. You can slap your personal opinion on this all you want but I don't think you can deny that in Morrowind Bethesda did at least put more effort into all of that.

There just isn't a lot of items in the game to have all of the unique loot to go around. Comparing to other games SKyrim really doesn't focus so much on the quality and amount of loot from quests/dungeons etc.

This is pretty much how I feel and for this reason, most of my characters do not perk enchant and some of them do not use the skill at all. If you don't perk enchant, then you can find loot that is far better than anything you can create, which makes every chest a potential lottery winner. Visiting merchants is more fun too because you might find some new piece of gear for your character.

I would agree, except for the fact that Her Hands' armor isn't the only thing about Morrowind like this. Finding an ebony bow in some totally out-of-the-way place, or a piece of super rare daedric armor. Accidentally stumbling across an artifact and not yet knowing its purpose. All kinds of things contributed to a sense of exploration and wonder. It's better in Skyrim than it was in Oblivion, for sure. I found a fragment of Mehrune's Razor long before I had the quest. There was nothing like that in Oblivion at all, it having been totally randomly-generated in most respects. But I'd like to see some things a lot more rare, and available by exploring the world.

EDIT!: I should add that lately I play without smithing and with only minor enchants. It has improved the fun of the game for me exponentially.

I love unique loot. But unfortunately it's not so great in this game. I find it rewarding to find awesome gear rather than create my own. I did once find a 35% bow damage circlet which I was amazed about but it wasn't that great. On my mage finding better Magicka Regeneration was cool too but not that great either.

I wish there were unique models and effects that are actually unique instead of a copy of another weapon with a random enchantment on it.

Combine all 3 ideas and you get.... AWESOMENESS.

1) More loot variety, I mean enemies might use Steel (Fine), Steel (Superior), Steel (Legendary) etc. weapons (Same applies to armor). The quality is linear based on a 100 point scale (Smithing skill) which means that for example: Items like a Steel (Fine) sword may not have exactly the same stats as another Steel (Fine) sword, boosting item variety that you find in the wild very significantly.

2) A cap on the quality of gear enemies can be equipped with to ensure smithing remains very useful. You can still smith gear to make it better then what it originally was so Smithing is still always a useful skill to invest in. This idea just ensures DragonBone/Daedric etc. gear can only be crafted/found on exceptionally tough high level enemies.

3) Unique appearance for all uniquely named gear/weapons.




Also, I find Oblivion loot leveling to be vastly more interesting then Skyrim's, mostly because you will almost always find something better then what you have ensuring that there is always something for you to go out and find and utilize to your benefit. In Skyrim the loot system was changed so that you will almost always never find something better then what you already have, making most loot you find utterly pointless. Sure Oblivion was terrible for magic users but aside from that I think the game is great (I favour melee anyways...)

I have a similar but opposite approach. Im frustrated by threads like these because people complain that the swords they make are better than the artifacts, so that means the artifacts arnt unique. Yes, i can make something much better than Red Eagles sword, but for me the artifacts give you a sense of connection to the story. The blade has a legend. It has a past. And now I will be part of the next retelling.
I also enjoy my own hand-forged weapons because then im creating a new story, but i HATE it when people complain that they wont use the legendary sword just because with 100 Smithing and 100 Enchant and a buncha perks they can make better. Your the worlds best smith and the worlds best enchanter, of COURSE you make powerful items. But raw power isnt eveything.

I also like that some items have no history, just a suggestion therof. The Bow of the Hunt has no history i know of. But a werewolf sent me to the place i got it, and it does more magic damage to animals than anyhting i can make (if a lot less damage in general). Given those two things and its name, it seems likely this weapon was blessed by Hiracine.

I've always liked the mmorpg style loot. Randomized, lots of unique items, some extremely rare, some not. It's always cool to fine something rare.