It might have been glitchy for players to be Volikhars though - define ice, try to create an anim that lets the player move through it in a way that doesn't reveal that the ice is hollow, or that ice is, to the game, the same thing as a rock. NPCs could do it fine but you'd have to explain why the player can't.

This isn't a perfect solution, but have a few spots in the game that are distinct enough for players to notice (or have notes leading to these spots) that the player could use to enter a Volkihar den. This would be the same as players entering the ice (as if it were a door) and coming to a new location beneath it (an air pocket or the like). Like I said, wouldn't allow you to do it at will, but it'd be a nice touch and a gameplay mechanic that could work well enough.

I am inclined to have to agree with this. If Bethesda must, Cyrodiilic vampires should of been offered the chance to turn into a bat(though not the large vampire lord). Feeding on sleeping victims, living in high positions of influence, having seductive powers..all these are attributes of Dracula. With the lore behind the Cyrodiilic vampires, Bethesda had great potential to add more to that. Have the enroaching Order Vampyrum try to take over Cyrodiil, and to wipe out the Volkihar. Have the true Volkihar want to fight back and leave their comfort zone. Add Dawnguard in to try and kill both of these vampire clans.

Players would be given two different vampiric strains that would act differently and new questlines. Cyrodiilic vampires would learn toward the more political side while the Volkihar is more savage.

I noticed this "mixed" thing. I remember Valerica saying the player was a vampire of mixed blood. Does that mean that part of the Cyrodiilic strain mixed in with the Volkihar?

This. So much so. Heck, the Order's questline could even make it where it's only you and a few other vampires attacking the Volkihar, and the majority of your allies are you unwitting human pawns.

I swear that every time Bethesda addresses werewolves and vampires in Skyrim they seem to stumble a bit. Neither of them were particularly enticing in Vanilla, and Dawnguard seemed to address that, but it made some huge mistakes in my opinion that only exacerbate things. With the inclusion of new abilities and whatnot, the parts where they went against lore/just randomly omitted things stands out all the more, drawing more attention to it and raising a lot more questions.

I suppose there is now a lore-based explanation for all the issues, but before I post this just know this is me trying hard to cover the mistake:

What if the writer of Immortal Blood was so terrified of what the Volikhar vampires really were he fabricated the whole section on them? Maybe he wanted for whatever reason (likely he didn't want them to get any more powerful) people to be so scared of these false attributes they wouldn't go near them, or would end up on a wild goose chase.

It is really quite a neat idea for lore to do that - BUT it obviously wasn't thought of in advance so this is me covering for Bethesda's failings really :/

TO HELL WITH THE LORE, TO HELL, GOD DAMMM, BLOODY HELL!!!!!!!
Excuse me....Anyway Bethesda Kept and added a good deal of lore, I am little disappointed about the Voilkar but it could have been worse

I don't find it lore breaking. We can easily explain it like this. The Vampire Lords are the "pureblood" strain, and closer to the original vampire, being created directly by Molag Bal. The vampirism in every game follows a microcosm-like pattern.

Daggerfall has multiple warring city-state type things and multiple warring vampire clans.
Morrowind has the Tribunal and the three warring vampire clans.
Oblivion is in Cyrodil, the province that conquered all others, and features a vampiric clan that destroyed all the other Cyrodilic clans.
Skyrim has the descendants of the first man and the first vampire.

What if the Volkihar in Immortal Blood was a non-pureblood offshoot that weren't Vampire Lords and had more ice related abilities as they branched out. If they were exterminated by the protagonist in Immortal Blood or by somebody else, then the only remaining group would be the original pureblood volkihar. You see, the offshoot merely continues to call themselves Volkihar rather than something else.

I have no problem with accepting both accounts, and I think Dawnguard does more for the lore than it hurts it.

Well maybe they will write another book or set of books explaining the lore behind the vampire lord. Also I am glad they did not restrict themselves to just that book. It may be fun to those who seem upset but most people seem to really enjoy being the new vampire lord.

Maybe he sent out his enemy to hunt down his other enemies from across the provinces in hopes of getting him killed in the process. I do not think a vampire of the Cyrodiilic vampire would fear the Volkihar, considering they weren't much of a threat back then, not as much as the Whet-Fang were.

Just because Volkihar are purebloods, it does not mean it is impossible for other vampires to be as well. Agronak was half vampire, meaning he inherited part of the vampiric genetics. If two vampiric parents were to mate, and somehow make a pact with Molag Bal, their child could be pureblooded as well.

The fact that Serena or ANY other Vampire other than the Order Vampires look human and can walk into towns without being attacked is lore breaking. The fact that they don't die in the sun is lore breaking.

If anything, you'd think the Purebloods would be the most vulnerable to the sun, considering the fact that they have the deepest connection to Molag Bal and whatnot. Sure they may have the greatest powers too, but they should come with some pretty major weaknesses.

Pre-Dawnguard if you invest in Destruction magic (Frost) and stick to Stage 4 that was the closest you could get to true Volkihar because you were super powerful but you could not enter towns

I look at the VL as a Blessing of Molag Bal rather than being even remotely related to the Volkihar. Like i am sure all "pure-bloods" across Tamriel can become VLs if they are ancient enough and have Bal's blessing

thats exactly what i did
why did they have to take away stage four hostility!!

Right....because we know everything there is about all vampire clans right? Look, Bethesda writes the lore. All that is required is that no previous 100% validated lore has been contradicted. It has not been. They invented a new group of vampires (Vampire Lords), that while yes, aren't burned up by the sun, they are still severely weakened by it. Vampirism has never exactly had consistent elements if Immortal Blood is to believed. The only thing that has been contradicted is your interpretation of the lore. The new dlc has uncorrupted falmer, fleshed origins for vampires, etc., and all you guys do is complain and moan. I just hope it doesn't stop anyone else from playing a good dlc.

This.

I'm just glad I'm not the only one. Too many fans (lore buffs included) criticize every game Bethesda makes. Oblivion kind of deserved it with Nu Cyrod, but I can tell Bethesda has been trying to stay consistent with lore in Skyrim, even if they haven't been as upfront with it. But in Dawnguard, they really tried to show more open regard for the lore. We got to meet a freaking moth priest for goodness sakes!

An old lore buff was saying, that with each new game, we are realizing how much we truly don't know about Tamriel, and I think this is true.

It's very true.

While somethings in the Lore are quite specific, other things (like Vampirism and the number and variety of Clans) are more generalized and gives the devs more opportunities to flesh them out and rework them without breaking their own Canon.

If they wanted to, I'd even be perfectly happy with a retcon to make it all fit, and being that they're the devs, they're allowed to do that if they should so choose. It's worked very well with Halo and StarWars, and those two universe's have just as much Lore behind them as the Elder Scrolls do.

In Skyrim, they've really fleshed out the Lore by a great deal, and even added a previously secretive but very powerful Clan who were/are created by Molag Bal himself, pass on their Gift to others, and thus grow stronger. No where in the Lore does it specifically say that Lamae is a Volkihar. Nowhere.

It simply states that she is the First Vampire. It very well could be that Lamae is a Vampire Lord, and that the Volkihar (while still extremely powerful Vampires) are simply weaker cousins to the Vampire Lord.

They've fleshed out the story of the Falmer, so they could be in more games'expansions/DLC at later dates due to finding an unaltered Falmer. He also hints that he strongly believes that there are pockets of other unaltered Falmer hiding throughout Nirn, so he plans on finding them over time and helping the Betrayed Falmer to try and reclaim their former Nobility and Dignity.

The only Lore that's being "corrupted" is people's interpretation of said Lore. People have this vision of the way the Lore is "supposed to be" and are unwilling to acknowledge it more generalized nature.

Dawnguard and Skyrim have further fleshed out and codified the Lore, not betrayed/destroyed it.

I do not claim to know everything about lore but it is clear to me that implementing something that is completely different than what was written before is a contradiction. Am I wrong? Is that not the very definition of 'contradiction'? Interpreting lore is not an exact science in any media but there is a certain method to it and logic, by filing through the various sources of information available one can usually and reasonably determine the lore's intent, scope, implications and when new content is introduced, its veracity. My view on Vampire Lords is debatable, but I will spare you that rant. My view on the Volkihar is not. As they are currently in the game, Skyrim, they are inaccurate, a retcon. I think it is clear that the book "Immortal Blood" is a credible source because it was correct on the two accounts that can be verified, the Vampires of Cyrodiil and Morvarth himself. We also have from various sources that the Vampires of Cyrodiil are the only Vampires that are capable of concealing their Vampiric nature and resisting the sun due to a pact with Clavicus Vile. It is clear to me and many others that the Vampires presented in Skyrim contradict many of the sources that came before. If you disagree then I invite you to present your evidence to the contrary. Uriel Nocturn is correct in that Bethesda can do whatever they want with their game though that hardly speaks well of their integrity. George Lucas did whatever he wanted and many people loath him for it. He may not care but his legacy and that of Star Wars will be forever stained by those controversies. You may not care, Bethesda may not care but story and consistency are just as important in video games as they are in any other media to many people. I do not see what Bethesda or anyone has to lose by sticking to the story they wrote but the consequences of the opposite are clear.

Agreed...also awesome sig: EV is epic

This.

It is amusing how people always point to Immortal Blood on the subject of Cyrodiilic vampires when clearly we have the Manifesto Cyrodiil Vampyrum, which is also a credible source because it comes hand in hand with "Immortal Blood" on the subject of blending in, having a more civilized and culturized nature, ousting other competitors and also acknowledging Lamae Beolfag's existance as the progenitor of the vampiric race(which is backed up by another ingame book and Serana's ingame dialogue).

We can all admit that Bethesda butchered their own lore and they do not give a damn about their legacy.

Bethesda has not butchered there lore.

*Their.

Please, explain why. I noticed you constantly kepe defending Bethesda when it is clear many of their lore is changed and retconned as new games are released.

1 thing i see is that there is a big difference between adding something new (Companion Lycans) and altering something old (Volkihar Vamps). I am fine with the VL form personally as i see it as something new related to Molag Bal but completely changing the Vokihar is madness and inexcusable. In at least that 1 way they truly did slaughter the lore books

I'm back! Mwhahahahaha!

Anyways, I love the OP it is hilarious, and true. I think Bethesda should have made the Companions strain because it is a cool concept, but also have kept to the lore and had werewolves like they had in Daggerfall. And like REL Dovahkin said, they should have made three strains of vampirism. They should have done this by making the vanill;a Skyrim vampires the Order or the Cyrodillic ones, and then made vampire that were like the Volkihar from the book Immortal Blood. And then have the pureblood strain that Harkon gives you.

Welcome back! Or we could have purebloods from the Order..