How do you come up with your dismissive "power gamer" comments. One very good reason to not take these perks is that you don't need them - at any point int the game. Another very good reason is that if you do, the whole already simple lockpicking aspect of the game will be silly easy, effectively ruining it. Explain how that has anything to do with power gaming?

You just aren't a real role player, so you won't understand. (sarcasm)

The key problem is they have a RPG mechanic of investing points into a skill and its perks, the perks come from a finite pool so they can't be spent frivolously. Then they add in a simple mini game to bypass all of that investment, a item that bypasses it,and a different skill that has a wide range of functions that can also bypass it. The only value in the perk tree is one or 2 perks that are fairly cool, stay hidden and better chance at items, the question then becomes is it worth the 6-7 perk investment to get 2 perks? And that is highly doubtful.

I dont know if the perks are completly useless...depending on how hard the hardest locks are i might take a perk, i picked pretty much every lock i found in fallout, so i dont think il have much of a problem....im not going straight for the thieves guild, il do that questline when i stumble upon it, so skeleton key is out of question.

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I probably won't get the perks simply because I'm a horrible person and have no problem re-loading saves if I mess up too much or get caught. I may roleplay my character, in that I have a story and a certain playing style in mind, but I play these games to have fun and that comes first. I know that defeats the point of there being consequences in the game - I never got arrested in Oblivion except when you needed to in that quest - but it is what it is. At least I don't use actual cheats because I play on a console.

Unless they somehow really upped the difficulty the perks will be useless. Though honestly I think mini-games like this are kind of incompatible with the system they have set up because they do bypass skill and perk investment. If you are going to have a player skill based mini-game the skill and perk improvements should be adding extra layers to the game in Fallout at a simple level it allowed you to unlock higher difficulty items as you leveled it up. They can't really do that with the alteration skill in the game if they wanted to keep the open lock spell basically as it is. So they removed that method of keeping the skill investment worthwhile. They should have put in other ways to do so, the extra gold and chance at items are really the only examples of it and that really isn't enough. As I mentioned earlier the only thing I can think of off hand is traps, but I am sure there are other things they could have done.

Okay everyone is talking about lock picking being a useless skill, but I don't see that as the case. They said lock picking will be more like FO3, most of the great loot was behind very hard locks that requires a lock picking skill of 100, so I see the skill as having a use.

No offense, but are you required to use the Skeleton Key? If not, then toss it away and pretend it doesn't exist.

The thing is, in this game you can pick the hardest locks in the game with a skill of 15. That is why people are saying the investment is worthless, all you have to do is get competent at the mini-game and your skill/perk investments get devalued.

It's not a big deal, if you have a problem with the skeleton key, don't use it. Plain and simple

As said above.. Traps on chests. That was one of my favorite Oblivion mods. It really made you rethink your security skill when a blown trap could zap you to ashes.

Traps on chests would totally justify the lockpick perks. You do not want to fail with them involved.

No. No I don't think so. This isn't Oblivion. This is not about skill. It's about luck.

I am not sure what you mean by this. The fallout system was about player skill as long as you met the requirement. and it was an easy mini game, I mean really really easy. This time around without a skill requirement player skill can get you past any lock. I hope they made the locks more difficult this time, but the mechanics are still really easy so I suspect it can only get so hard and once you get decent at the game your skill level and or perks wont matter much at all. Where does luck come into it? Are you saying it is so hard that you have to be lucky to beat a tough lock?

Yes. Based on what I've seen you have about a 1 in 255 chance of getting the lock placement right by random chance on a Master or even Expert lock if you haven't put any time into it.

Why would it be based on random chance though, in the mini game it is rumble sensitive. Not sure how it will pan out for mouse keyboard, sound maybe? One you get used to the cues, it should be easy even if the window of opportunity is small.

If you're supposed to give it back at some point of the thieves guild quest, better to stash it somewhere. Not to mention that a quest-critical item probably cannot be removed from the inventory.

glad that the skeleton key is back ,if we have to return it we probably can steal it back ,in oblivion we could steal quest items that we return it.

They combined all of the effects of Oblivion and Fallout lockpicking and created a monstrosity that eats lockpicks like a fat guy eats potato chips. If you so much as touch the lock swivel with the pick out of place it's bye bye lockpick.

Well, then I hope lockpicks are buyable at more sources than 1 pawn shop and the thieves guild, ala Oblivion.

I, for one, actually complete quests instead of keeping a quest object and then complaining that it unbalances the game. Even if it truly doesn't unbalance if you know how to Lockpick good enough. Someone already posted that you can't spam "force door". You still have to pick the locks.....

In fact, this thread talked me into actually taking perks in the Lockpicking tree... Just because I know it annoys some people. Besides, I like special items.... I am a collector, so I can't get enough of them.

Oh so it's not stupidly easy. Sounds like you're describing Fallout lock picking with multiple stages, like in Oblivion (1 tumbler 2 tumbler 3 tumbler etc)

Glad they are putting things like the Skeleten Key back in the game. I just bet its going to be VERY hard to get and only obtainable at high levels. I wonder if the other wonderous items from Daggerfall were added back into this game. So exciting!

Im going to advance lock picking because its fun

Doesn't one of the lockpick perks give you a 50% bonus to find rare loot? I wouldn't call that useless.



That means lockpicking isn't going to be ridiculously easy? Nice! I always welcome a new challenge.

the lock picking looks much better, no silly cross section of the lock

I definitely will get my skill maxed because I plan on picking every lock I see (not to min/max the game but rather to see what's behind the lock). However, if I can pick every lock with just my lockpick skill then why waste my precious perks on lockpick? It's a different story if the perks will be needed to pick some of the locks. Then they become worthwhile. Haven't played the game yet so I don't know.