Werewolf would win as the vampire needs to access its spells from its favorites menu as vampire lord spells/powers cannot be hotkeyed. In a PvP scenario I would assume this would not pause the game as it does in the regular game but rather the VL would have to access its menu in real time. This alone would give the werewolf enough time to reach the vampire even over a relatively large distance.

Supernatural reflexes would also be useless against a werewolf as It only lasts a short time and the werewolf's sprinting speed would put them roughly on the same level. The bat form has a very limited range and would only succeed in buying the vampire a few seconds. Mist form could be useful to regenerate magicka and health but it would also be easy for the werewolf to follow leaving it to whoever struck first as soon as mist form wore off.

As for spells vampiric grip has limited range, high magicka cost, low choke damage and the throw ability only does major damage on cliffs. Summon gargoyle would be useful using the necklace to summon two and could distract a werewolf's summons. Corpse curse would win the fight for the vampires but how would they aim it and hit reliably a werewolf traveling at full speed? Finally drainball is powerful but is going to have no effect against a charging werewolf as there are only so many the VL would be able to cast before the werewolf was on top of them.

On the other hand werewolves have superior strength, speed, stamina and health (debatable) and the only totem power that would be of any use in a 1v1 situation in an open area would be brotherhood. By summoning the werewolves at the start of an encounter the werewolf gives the vampire the option of summoning gargoyles to distract the summoned werewolves (giving the werewolf time to reach the VL) or the VL could directly attack the player werewolf giving the two summons time to close in and stun the VL and give the player werewolf time to recover.

Because A VL needs to use all of its spells/powers in combination and in a PvP situation there would be no way to pause the combat, it is stuck using drainball, one spell and one power to defend itself from a werewolf with two summoned ones behind it. Unless the VL gets lucky and makes a hit with corpse curse the VL has no chance to switch spells and no chance to cause major damage.

In the end the VLs reliance on magicka is its weakness and with the wolves superior experience and tactics would mean that the wolves would come out on top 9 times out of ten, the 1 being for a lucky shot with corpse curse.

Vampire Lord is stronger against NPC's. Both forms do aloot of damage but Vampire Lord has much MUCH more surviveability.

Against each other i would also assume the Vampire Lord to be stronger, (ranged magic that drains hp and can paralyze, can hover backwards and attack, from what i have seen cant be knocked down, Grip trow thingy, etc).

Talking PvP the Vampire Lord would just slow time and then keep the Werewolf paralyzed if not gripped.

PvE the Vampire Lord is the clear winner. Much more survivability and utility.

VL cannot be knocked down but it can be stunned if hit hard enough.

^^ The werewolf might be able to use that to win. But i doubt it would be able to get a swing in with the force grip/trow + paralyze + slow time that the vamp lord can do. So i will still claim that the Vampire Lord would be stronger in general, offcourse a Werewolf might win a match from time to time.

Many are missing the main crux of this debate....and that is "mortality"

i think both the Vampire Lord and Werewolf are both straight boss. They both have advantages and disadvantages.

However the bottom line is the Werewolf wins this fight nearly everytime, not because he is stronger or faster...the werewolf wins because he/she is Fearless".....The Werewolf is literally a beast "with no fear" and that makes the difference between doing something insane in order to win or dieing.

The Vampire/Vampire Lord while once human still retains all his memory and emotions of being human/elf. The Vampire Lord still remembers his wife, his kids, his girlfriend, and more importantly the Vampire is still very much human and cant escape the overwhelming mortal feelings of fear and fear of death.

The Werewolf on the otherhand LOSES ALL MEMORY AND VISAGES OF BEING HUMAN/ELF UPON TRANSFORMATION. The Werewolf becomes a beast a wild savage beast that knows no fear......men/woman/elfs that are Werewolfs do not remember all that they do while transfoirmed...they will remember bits and pieces that seem like dreams..but they lose conscious thought when the beast takes over...the Spirit of the Wolf takes over....

Upon becoming Werewolf you remember running around Whiterun and then Blacking out waking up miles away not remembering how you got there..the events you do remember seem like a dream.

The Werewolf only wins this battle because the Werewolf leaves behind any visages of mortal emotions when he transforms...any visages of human/elf including the emotions are gone from the werewolf..they dont exist they are replaced with the mind of an apex predator...the werewolf being 100% without fear will do things that would make evil knievel think he was insane and thats why he would win...not because of his strength.

Since the Werewolf knows no fear, he would do what any apex predator would do and that is use his howl to summon two werewolfs and the 3 werewolfs would circle their prey, perform "mock charges" and etc psycheing the Vampire Lord out until the Vamp bites and leave an opening and the wolfs tear his throat out....even if the Vampire Lord can summon gargoyles..in the back of his/her mind the VL is intimidated and feels fear of being surronded by 3 apex predators (werewolf + summon werewolf howl)

even though the VL has the choke and throw move, it only effects 1 creature at a time and cost a good bit of magic and cant be maintained very long. Using that + summon gargoyles will drain his mana...the werewolf spirits are strong. The Vampire Lord using his choke and throw move leave him wide open to attack from the sides or behind from the other two wolfs.

many under-estimate the werewolf spirts,,,they are way tougher then gargoyles and will make a meal out of 1 in second.....the werewolf being the apex predator is not just going to charge in...he is going to scout and observe his prey..the 3 of them circling...mock charges and such to get inside the VL mind, playing mind games with the VL drawing all of his attention on 1 while getting blind sided from behind and the sides. the Werewolf also has superior hearing, sense of smell, and strength, speed, and agility....in EVERY instance the Vampire Lord will always be playing on the defensive and the Werewolf will always be the Agressor because the VL real power is whie he can fly and staying away from close quarters combat.

the VL getting into mele with the Werewolf is just playing into the wolfs hand who will easily slaughter him/her.

the vamp feels fear because he still retains his human emotions and memories, the Werewolf retains no such memories or emotions..the mind of the man/woman/elf is replaced by the wolf spirit that has the mind of an apex predator that knows no fear...as i said werewolf usually remember bits and pieces of a transformation that seem like dreams.


the vampire lord would give the Werewolf a run for his money, but the mortal emotion of fear in the back of his mind would be his undoing.

Werewolf would win, remember they have that roar when two werewolves come to help them. The VL could only focus his grip on one while he had two other werewolves attacking him. So VL would win against 1 werewolf but in a group he would lose. But in the long run VL have all eternity to plan their strategy and they are organized. While werewolves are secular minus the companions. Also a Werewolf can only transform once a day after that they are weak. So in the heat of the battle the werewolf would win but afterwards when he is a human and weak the VL's vampire buddies would come along and kill him/her. Overall it would be a stalemate they would fight each other to near extinction. Which is why the humans in TES always prevail, yes they fight but not to the point where they try to kill everyone just to kill everyone.

Oh boy, one of these threads...

A VL would HAVE to use CC or grip. If he can, he will probably win. Otherwise, if the wolf gets within melee range, one swipe will ragdoll the VL and the werewolf's superior claws will tear him up in seconds.

It's all about who gets who first, like with most of these threads

werewolf melee attacks are strong enough to toss a giant when you have bestial stength 4/4 and they can call other werewolfs to help. so while a vampire lord is griping one of your werewolf buddies you can beat their face into the ground from behind.

VLs win this 100% of the time. Two werewolves mean nothing, we can summon two gargoyles to even it out. You wet dogs can't even have all your powers at once like we can. Supernatural reflexes + Corpse Curse means a werewolf will never touch me. What happens when I decide to launch you into the nearest lake where you can no longer fight and I still can? What happens when I turn mist form and disappear into the forest where you lose track of me but I still know your position?

Vampire Lord. Werewolf wouldn't even be able to get close enough to do any real damage. The Vampire Lord can Vampiric Grip the Werewolf around, he can Paralyze the Werewolf, he can pop Supernatural Reflexes to increase his speed and slow the Werewolf(s), he can use Bats to evade (Which also leech the life of any nearby opponent with the Amulet of Bats), and he can go into Mist Form to become invulnerable and regenerate Health/Stamina/Magicka, while the cooldowns of his abilities keep ticking down. The Vampire Lord can also summon 2 Gargoyles (With the Amulet of the Gargoyle) to distract the Werewolf's two Werewolf familiars. Meanwhile, his Drain Life does an AoE blast that leeches Health, so he can quite easily take out the two extra Werewolves with that, especially in tandem with Supernatural Reflexes. Even a fully perked Werewolf would be screwed against a fully perked Vampire Lord. Especially if Night Cloak works while in Mist Form, and if the Bloodstone Chalice's "Blood of the Ancients" buff works for the Drain Life spell in Vampire Lord form, someone want to test this?

blood of the ancients also works in VL form.

Wow. Yeah, Werewolf is screwed then. "Blood of the Ancients" allows the Drain Life spell to also absorb Stamina and Magicka. Which means the VL could completely drain the Werewolf of Stamina with Drain Life blasts, making the Werewolf unable to Sprint or Power Attack. They'd be a sitting duck basically.

Anything...except for the undead.

Depends on the terrain, who has first strike, etc.

Now, if you added my Paladin into the mix, the answer becomes quite simple:

VL: Vampiric Grip
Paladin: Become Ethereal, Paralyze, Bane of the Undead
(Vampire Lord burns away into dust and scatters into the wind)
Werewolf: Charges, knockback, wolves, etc
Paladin: Blocks, heals, slashes with custom Sunlight/Silver enchanted Dragonbone sword
(Werewolf bleeds out and dies)

Paladin leveled up!

Wow this is pretty biased.

You can't block a Werewolf ragdoll attack. That is assuming he would even survive the initial sprint attack which deals 420 damage fully perked.

.vampire lords cannot be ragdolled,only stunned for a brief second.

It's called a joke friend

I know, and it's enough time for me to rip the VL to shreds
All you fangers are relying on the force grip, which you need to get a bead on you target for it to work. Werewolves are more agile and fast then the VL which means we can out maneuver a VL, we're superior in strength and we're superior hunters. There's a reason we're used on the hunting grounds you know.

As I said, VL is deadly at a distance but I am able to close that gap very fast myself, if I summon 2 werewolves then it turns to a wolf pack hunting. Have any of you fangers seen a wolf pack take down a buffalo? There's a reason they hunt in packs.... to take out larger prey. So all I'd have to do is summon my fellow werewolves and it's game over for the VL. As long as I can close the gap, if I am unable to get in close then I can see myself having a hard time with the VL.

But what if the vampire has no fear. What if even being surrounded by Werewolfs doesn't rattle him because he knows he is the best. Especially with supernatural reflexes, he would just paralyze all 3 werewolfs, even If they got close, he would turn into bats an dodge.

Vampire wins most of the time

You keep saying that you faster and more agile, but your forgetting about the supernatural reflexes perk. It's like a slow time shout that's perminent. Then I could just paralyze all 3 of you. Even if you got close then I have the bats ability.

Well I think it's a stale mate until there's a " multi player " function to test both sides arguments But thankfully there will never be a " multi player "

Uhm... the skyrim online mod? xD (Its not 100% finished yet, but its getting there quickly).

http://skyrim-online.com/

when was that started? I only new about the MMO. Perhaps PC players will be willing to put this to the test, when the time comes

The VL can still use Bats to evade even when stunned. A Werewolf will never be able to get close enough to a VL to damage him in the first place. The Supernatural Reflexes perk completely trumps the Werewolves speed, making "getting a bead" on him hella easy. Plus with the Bloodstone Chalice buff, the Vampire Lord would absorb the Werewolve's Stamina, making him unable to Sprint or Power Attack, making evading the Werewolf even easier.

Seriously, a fully perked Vampire Lord vs a fully perked Werewolf, would end up like a Frost Mage vs Warrior duel in WoW. The VL could spam /dance while singing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIHAkqCls4A. Lmfao, i could so make a Skyrim parody version of that song. Lmfao, working on it now.