Like i said before what multiplayer game allows one side to pause the entire game to switch their equipment? You are talking about two powers when there is only one power button. With a werewolf traveling at full sprint with two summons behind it, could you honestly say you could accurately fire two spells and use one power and switch to the other without hot-keys or the game being paused when the wolves can close a considerable gap within 10 seconds? Also VL powers have a high cool down and only last a short while. Supernatural reflexes also only lasts for 10 seconds which won't make that much difference against three wolves.

Also draining stamina wouldn't get the VL very far as werewolf stamina regeneration is ridiculous. You could drain it to 0 and the wolf would have it half way full within 5 seconds. On the other hand Vampire magicka regeneration is poor so as soon as its down to 0 the wolf wins which won't take to long with the VL trying to deal with 3 wolves. Yes you could summon gargoyles but by the time you had corpse curse or vampiric grip ready the player wolf is up in your face and has you stagger locked.

As long as one wolf makes it through against a VL using corpse curse, it will either stagger lock the VL or force it to evade giving the other two enough time to recover from it. There is only so long a VL will be able to stall before the wolves get him. As I have said how would a VL be able to switch between its spells/powers while aiming, firing and evading to take down three wolves without getting hit once as thats all it would take for the wolves to end it.

The wolves havent got a chance, ive played both to there power gaming maximum i know, the funny thing is that with the right enchantments like unarmed damage, right perks and a certain ring a VL can do more damage per hit with his claws that a Werewolf, granted the wolf has speed but we have reflexes, vastly higher pools of health and so many dogde abilities its untrue. Im not gonna bother going into it as others in this thread have quite clearerly stated the facts already but Vamps would win easily.

Um. No?

Werewolves have much higher melee damage and can receive a 100 point boost to health while VLs can only get a 50 point boost.

But I guess I should expect as much in a really devoted fan thread Both sides are guilty, I'm sure.

The vampire lord will always win unless the werewolves attack in a group but thats a slim chance of sucess

Ok Its the whole Vampire vs Werewolf saga again isnt it....(sigh).....just a normal dragonborn (if u can call dragonborn normal) could take on both a werewolf and a vampire lord and completely lay them out. True a werewolf is fast and strong, and a vampire can turn into bats or turn invincible but neither can use weapons or dragon shouts. I would just fus ro dah the werewolf if he came to close and the vampire oh lookie here i got master destruction spells, high health and armor and duel swords and just to be overkill i got a special little bow that i yet to have fun with. No offence but humans dont have limits unlike undead or werewolves. No weakness to sun. Can heal self on whim. Sorry just putting it out there.

In a multiplayer game version, you'd be able to hotkey the VL powers (We're gonna be able to do it on the PC too, once Dawnguard releases for it). Enough said.
You must've played a VL on a low Magicka build if you think they regen Magicka slowly. A high magicka VL can spam the hell out of Drain Life for quite awhile before beginning to run low on Magicka, and with the Ring of the Erudite, it regens back pretty fast.

Well the werewolf seems faster so if he/she could close the distance on the vampire lord you're looking at a dead bat.

supernatural reflexes says hi.

Not really when the vampire lord can drain magicka, health and stamina at the same time with 1 spell. Lets not forget during the PC release you can hotkey the vampire lord spells for easy switching.

Oh and lets not forget supernatural reflexes and bats

Well if you remove the claws from a werewolf what do you have....? A dog

If you take the venom from a cobra what do you have....? A belt.

Well, to be fair, it's a bigass dog.

And if you take away the teeth, you have a cuddly stuffed animal!

I can see it now...Young Jimmy, cuddling with his new animal friend in bed...

Then he awakes to find his arms wrapped around a naked, hairy man.

It could be a naked woman....

Christmas is coming early for jimmy this year!

..........that's not the only thing coming early, eh, young Jimmy?

Drain life is the lowest cost spell a VL has. You may be able to kill rooms of bandits with drain ball but to take down 3 wolves who have high health its not so easy. The better spells such as corpse curse and vampiric grip have much higher magicka costs and it must be remembered VL powers cost magicka too. Hot keys unfortunately don't work for the VL so they would still need to access your favorites menu to switch them.

Just tested and it takes 9 seconds for a werewolf to cover 100 paces/ft. In that time a VL would only be able to cast corpse curse 4 times. This means the VL would only have one chance to miss and still hit all 3 wolves. This is also assuming that the werewolf rushes straight for a VL which is unlikely as it knows it will most likely get hit if it goes for a straight charge. Also distance can benefit the wolves just as much as a VL as it is easier to dodge spells.

As long as the wolves get within 30 paces of a VL it doesn't matter if corpse curse hits a wolf or not as the VL would have no time to take down the other two wolves. At over 50 paces the wolf can easily dodge every spell the VL throws at him. It takes the wolf just under 2 seconds to cover 20ft while the VL takes 2 seconds to charge and release a spell. If it takes 9 seconds for a wolf to cover 100 ft, it would take 4.5 to cover 50. In that time the VL can only fire twice against three wolves and if he starts to back up he sacrifices his accuracy. If he uses supernatural rexlexes the wolves turn and run until it wears off after 12 seconds. The VL cannot sprint and fire at the same time so it is easy for the wolves to get over 50 ft away. By the time it did wear off the werewolf would be able to summon two new werewolves. If the werewolves then do a flat out sprint at 50 ft the VL has no supernatural reflexes to save him due to high cool down time. If it then uses mist form it gives any werewolves it paralyzed time to recover and then track the VL until it leaves mist form, during which it cannot select new spells or powers. As soon as it leaves It has 3 wolves on top of it and its game over.

All the Vampire Lord would have to do is summon his two Gargoyles, which would immediately distract the two Werewolf Familiars. If the Vampire Lord lands even a single Vampiric Grip on the Werewolf (Which he will, with Supernatural Reflexes), the Werewolf is screwed. Even without a cliff, a Vampire Lord could just toss the Werewolf up into the air, and when he slams back down he'd lose 20% of his health. Before the Werewolf even has a chance to get back up, the Vampire Lord would just re-grip his ass, toss him back into the air for another 20% of health damage, then rinse and repeat 3 more times and the Werewolf would be dead without landing even a single claw on the Vampire Lord.

This is one smart werewolf
All you fangers are just going to have to face facts, the perfect counter to a VL is a werewolf. And if your facing experienced werewolves like myself and my fellow wolf Twistedorthrus here your in big trouble.

You are really overestimating the power of vampiric grip and the magicka cost after a couple of throws the VL would be out of magicka and the wolf would still have plenty of health. And why would a player charge the VL if they know its going to use Supernatural reflexes? The werewolf player would wait until the VL had used the power before attacking. By summoning wolves and letting them charge in while the player stays out of range the player wolf is forcing the VL to use that power to defend itself unless it gets lucky and paralyzes them both without it. The VL would still have to waste magicka keeping them paralyzed while he killed them only for the wolf to summon two more the second they were both dead. If he does use supernatural reflexes the player wolf turns and runs even with the perk the VL would only be able to catch up with a flat out "sprint which means no spells. It would also need to be careful of getting too close as when it wears off the Werewolf could just turn around and be on top of the VL. If not the VL is stuck shooting spells from a distance at a target that is getting further and further away. When it wears off the wolf summons two more wolves and attacks. In 4.5 seconds you would not be able to summon your gargoyles and switch your spell to vampiric grip/corpse curse in time.

The werewolf would win because it can counter everything the vampire does. How could the VL counter 3 charging werewolves in 4.5 seconds when It can only summon two gargoyles and by that time they are 2.5 seconds from the VL? There would be no time to switch spells and supernatural reflexes would be recharging. Bats only buys you a second and puts your back to the wolf while mist form stops you from switching spells and powers and would be easy for a wolf to follow. Supernatural reflexes is the only useful power but is easy for a wolf to counter. Once thats out of the way all the VL can do is prolong the inevitable.

The answer is obvious. Werewolf kills a normal vampire. That means that second future second generation Fenrir's werewolf lord beats Horkans second gen Vampire lord

How would the werewolf know if the vampire used supernatural reflexes? Also, the gargoyles would destract the 2 werewolf, and the vampire lord wouldn't have to get close, that's why he uses ranged attacks.

A vampire is the perfect counter to any werewolf:)

As I have said before, they are both dangerous and could easily kill one another depending on the circumstances, way of fighting and who gets the jump on whom.
For werewolf players, try fighting a vampire lord without using running attacks, knock downs or ragdoll inflicting moves and see how you fair then. As a vampire lord, I have taken out dragons and high level werewolves with just claws and no magic whatsoever. Again if anyone really want to see this kind of fight, you can make a request to this guy on youtube who pits monsters, characters and creatures against each other, I think its called champions of skyrim but i'm not sure.

Funny thing some of you guys are forgetting. Magical defense is very easy to have without equipment, you can get high spell absorption or magic resistance while in Vampire Lord or Werewolf form without resorting to exploits. The same can not be said for resistance to physical attacks.

I have the atronach stone active and the Atronach perk, how could is your offense when its absorbed 80% of the time. Or Lord Stone+Agent of Mara+3 Ranks in Magic Resistance. 70% Magic resistance. Or what if a little of both. 80% spell absorption and 45% Magic Resistance. Suddenly the Vampire Lord's offense isn't looking to good. And that doesn't even take into account alchemical potions taken before turning into a werewolf.

The Vampire Lords options to buff himself against physical attacks are much more limited, and in a contest of physical beat downs the werewolf is going to win. Just the atronach stone alone could screw over an unlucky VL.

Have you seen how fast werewolves regenerate stanima, Its like having the redguard ability constantly active.

Everyone keeps saying that werewolf ghosts can easily be distracted by two gargoyle summons, yet if you play as a werewolf, you'll see that quite often, the two summons not only fight the same target, meaning that they can easily dispatch the two gargoyles one at a time, but also that 80 percent of the time, the two werewolves fight what you fight. In other words, the werewolves will actually ignore the two gargoyles, and instead rush the VL, as I have observed with mine, and other things that summon creatures. Even though Harkon is a computer, and thus not a good example for most things in this debate, he is in this case,because Harkon summons multiple skeletons during your fight, and the werewolves instead followed me, and joined in the flurry of claw strikes that I had put on him. Because of this, in my opinion, ANY VL that gets swarmed by a werewolf will be cut down by him and one other wolf, since he will more than likely grip one, but be swarmed by the other. Even if he does, the other two will undoubtedly swipe him in an attempt to ragdoll, and while this wont actually knock him over, will stun the VL, and force him to drop the said wolf in question. Another matter is whether or not the VL is in Sunlight. I'm not sure if u can regen magicka in sunlight as a VL, but if not that is a serious disadvantage, on top of health. Even with absorb health and vampire grip, werewolves usually dont have a lot of magicka to absorb in the first place, and the VL's powers use up so much, that unless he can make a quick kill, which werewolves specialize in, the VL is finished one way or the other. Werewolves have more health, are quicker, deal much more damage up close, and stamina regenerates extremely fast. And even if the VL is NOT in direct sunlight, all the werewolf has to do is close the distance, and swarm him while he fumbles with his various LIMITED powers. The bat ability needs recharging, and doesnt gain u much distance, the mist ability is easy for the fast werewolf to track, and the quick reflex ability wont help the VL from getting stun locked, not to mention in a real fight, the VL wont be able to pause time to select his powers, so he'll have to quickly select and use his abilitys without missing, or he'll risk wasting magicka, while the werewolf, who only has one ability at a time can concentrate on one ability, and just melee. So this is in fact an advantage rather than a weakness. The VL can waste his magicka on two gargoyles if he wants, but the werewolves WILL most likely ignore them, and gang on the VL. Conclusion, if the werewolf gets close which isnt that hard, VL is done.