Are you kidding me?

"He's not on the list...."

"Screw the list, I can't be arsed with the paperwork, so we'll quickly lop off his loaf anyway......."

Screw that - Stormcloak for life at that point....rabidly so!

Except the Empire really isn't blocking anything. If the Dominion got it in their mind to invade again, they'd take Cyrodiil rather easily sure. But thats it. They wouldn't be able to touch High Rock (except by going through a long and likely expensive sea route that will tie up a significant portion of their forces for a long time) as its blocked in by Hammerfel (which I doubt the Dominion will ever try to take over again until they've taken the entirety of the Empire) and Skyrim, which the Dominion would be foolish to try and invade because its the absolute worst place they could think of invading. The only entrances to it (besides sea routes) that the Dominion could get to are covered in mountainous terrain (which is terrible to fight a war on), inhabited by folks that have a burning hatred for elves (and doubly so after the Talos worship ban) who also happen to be some of the most capable fighters on Tamriel.

And thats not even going into what reinforcements might be had from High Rock and even Hammerfel. Throw in the inevitable Valenwood rebellion and the Dominion is going to be screwed if they go to war again.

However...Then you look at say ulfric stormcloak, He carries the veener of a career politican, Someone who talks alot but says very little, Not to mention he's originally cold to the player character if he isn't a nord, that and he forces the dark elves in windhelm to live in the slums of his city.

Which you can't blame him for being cold towards you as a non-Nord. He is afterall fighting against the Empire and there isn't likely going to be too many non-Nord supporters of the Stormcloaks.

And no one forces the Dunmer to live in the slums. The Dunmer have nowhere better to go after Morrowind's destruction. And besides, at least they get to stay in the city itself (beast folk have it worse, though thats always been the case for them in places like Skyrim, Morrowind, and the Summerset Isles). And even besides that, lets remember that the Dunmer were no better.

They accepted the white-gold concordat in the hopes of marshalling their forces and striking back at the dominion en masse.

Which was pointless because they could have continued the fight while doing rebuilding the rest of the Legion. Hammerfel fought the Dominion to a standstill by itself and kept it that way for 5 years. That alone proves the Empire could have easily continued the fight and by the gods should have continued the fight. May be not in a full aggressive war, but at least in a defensive capacity. Mede was an idiot, and while sure you can try and say that he ended the war to reduce the strain on his people, thats absolute crap because Hammerfel was going to be stricken by war regardless, and nowhere else was going to be affected too drastically. Skyrim and High Rock never even saw the war.

All that needed really needed to be done was to take the rest of the Legion that was capable to fight, bolster it with fresh troops from Skyrim and High Rock, and defend Cyrodiils southern border, meanwhile sending any spare troops to Hammerfel.

The Dominion's army was absolutely destroyed at the Battle of the Red Ring. The Legion only lost about half its forces, with half of its remaining forces unable to continue soldiering. IDK about you, but I think 25% of your fighting force is more than enough to deal with the enemies scattered 5-10%, especially in a defensive mode.

One must also realize that the Dominion was never actually that big of a threat in the first place. They only reason they managed to be so devastating was because they started the war before the Legion even had a chance to know there was a possibility of war, and the southern defenses of Cyrodiil were completely bypassed. The Legion was split six different ways before it even knew it was at war. No army on Tamriel is going to fall for that trick again ever unless they're totally incompetent. Even the Legion wouldn't fall for it again in its reduced capacity.

If the Dominion was forced into a direct ground war (as they would be if Skyrim was leading the fight against the Dominion) they would lose drastically. And especially so if the Dominion tried to step food in Skyrim.

Once i finally actually talked to general tullius, He seemed to be an earnest and hard-working person who really wants nothing more then to quell the rebellion the legion can focus on fighting the bigger threat

It is rather folly to base your opinion of the Empire on one general who is sworn to obey his superiors. If you want to judge the Empire, look at its Emperor and his family and what they've done. The Mede Emperors are for one, illegitimate. They stole the throne through force (Gee, I wonder who we're accusing of doing that?) and while that was nice for the Empire in the short term it ultimately proved to be devastating to the Empire as they turned out to be massively short sighted and plainly stupid. Hence, the White-Gold Concordat which unnecessarily put the Empire at the whim of their former enemy.

Ulfric however abuses the voice (( Which he learned from the greybeards, A group dedicated to studying the voice as a form of monastic pacifism.)) To kill king torryg and make a petty grab for the throne. So in ending.

Monastic pacifism is all fine and dandy up on a mountain, but not so much down on earth where everyone else lives. And besides that, that isn't what happened at all. There was no "petty grab for the throne". Thats just a red herring people like to throw around so as to diminish the actual point of Ulfric killing Torryg.

No, Torryg died to show the people of Skyrim the disaster that they are in. That the High King of Skyrim was able to be slain by some insignificant Jarl's son who happened to win a few battles says a lot about the state of Skyrim and for that matter the Empire.

And you can't use the "hurr he cheated, he shouted" argument either. If you actually investigate what happened when the duel took place, and actually look past the inherent bias from both sides, you'll see that the duel wasn't this clear cut "Ulfric shouted and then stabbed the boy". No, I find that its much more likely that the two fought for a while (do notice that Torygg was already dead or dying before any of the witnesses came to be there. No one besides Ulfric can actually say exactly how that battle went, and naturally you can't trust him as a source (far too biased of course), so you have to rely on those who came to witness the end of the battle) and Ulfric, knowing that he was going to win regardless (and again, this was the entire point of this duel, to show that the High King was unworthy of his station, and by extension the Empire of its station), used the Thu'um as a flourish rather than an actual tactical move. Its akin to disarming your opponent, getting him on his knees, and then chopping off his head.

There was no murder. Torygg agreed to the duel. Ulfric defeated him. To try and soil the memory of Torygg by going on about "cheating" is just distasteful. Torygg died a good Nord's death and now persists in Sovngaarde. Let him have that.

And if you still need help realizing what this duel actually was, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp1mzx5O4ao and understand the context of whats going on. The two duels serve much the same purpose.

Neither. After visiting all the cities and talking to the npcs and jarls I realised I didn't like either side, so have just let them fight it out without me.
Unless you actively involve yourself it kind of feels like the war has reached an impasse with both sides stalemated. Nothing happens and everything remains fairly peaceful.

Depends upon the character I am playing.

Reasons: beacause each character has their own motivations.

I sided with the empire i have been with the empirew since morrowind and i wanted to still and im not a true nord so i didn't care for ulfric killing the high king. So i went against him and defeated him and his storm cloak general.

The empire that existed during morrowind exists no longer. Septim Empire died 200 years ago.

Ok, Not to go indepth into this tomuch, but on my first Elven character (a Dunmer), I chose to go Imperial because of the
Racist atitude of Ulfric and I did not like what Skyrim would become if the Stormcloaks win there little war, but If I play an
Elf on another playthrough I may just as well choose the Storm cloaks because that will make Skyrim a much softer target
for when the Thalmer (Aldmen Dominion) march in and take over, so in the long run choosing the Storm cloaks is best for
an Elvern character.

With that being said, for a Nord character the best choice would be to choose Imperial Even if you are a true sun of Skyrim
as it keeps Skyrim strong. Well...stronger anway as even if the Imperials win with very low number of loses they may still not
be strong enought to hold off a serious attack by the Aldmen Dominion.

Rightly or wrongly I kinda made up my mind following the above.

With all that being said my next character will go Stormcloak just so I ca play the other side quests.

I also thought that the Stormcloaks were the good guys and Imperial Legion were the bad guys. However after listening to them both, I have decided to go with the Empire on this one. Ulfric Stormcloak is flat out a racist. If it were up to him, I am sure he would ethnically cleanse Skyrim so it could be for the nords in fact. The Empire is far more equal opportunity than the STormcloaks. And on top of it, I think Ulfric is very arrogant. He speaks to my character as if she is the very bottom of scum. I just don't like the guy at all...

Stormcloaks, but I really held out, and gave it some serious thought.

1. I was a Nord
2. The Empire were invaders
3. The Elves were like the secret police
4. My country was trampled underfoot.
5. I was going to be executed from the word go.

I main an Imperial Assassin, sided with the Empire, but I played him as a double agent working for the dark brotherhood. Those of you who have played through the dark brotherhood questline know what I'm talking about.

Stormcloaks. The Empire is a old phoenix, that needs to be lit on fire and born again. Ulfric can get it done.

Imperials but only because they're the only good chance against the Aldmeri Dominion.

Stormcloaks all the way!! Keep all the other garbage races out of Skyrim! Skyrim is for the Nords! All the Khajit do is complain about how cold it is. "Then go back to Elsweyr you [censored word for cat and weakling]!"

Plus, everyone knows the Nords could best the imperials any day in a fight, so really, it's the empire who needs the Nords, not the other way around. Skyrim will do just fine against the Aldmeri Dominion without the Empire. (Those scumbag Altmer are from the Summerset Isles, they don't even know how to survive the cold, bitter harshness of Skyrim without their magicks.)

This is my current response, because I'm playing a racist Nord. I imagine that even when I play other races, I'll still be sympathetic to the Nords and their nationalism. Besides, contrary to what everyone on these forums appears to think, Ulfric's alleged racism isn't even remotely as globally immoral as the empire telling everyone (including particularly the Nords) what they can and can't believe and what gods they can and can't worship. I'm suprised that forum-goers make such a huge deal out of Ulfric's racism that they support a much more immoral institution.

That actually sounds pretty dope. I will have to try that on my nest play. This game is pretty sick with all of the stuff and ways it is possible to do things...

Empire, couldn't afford to divide the empire further. Stormcloaks are racist. And i just went with the one closest to where i was since I really didn't like that aspect of the game. I think it was great for setting, but should not be something resolved in the game. I ended an entire war myself, nonsense.

Still don't see how the Stormcloaks are racist.

Niranye is more racist towards the Dunmer than they are (she's one of the Altmer from Summerset Isle who live quite comfortable lives among Windhelm's richest residents).

Edit: nevermind.

My Imperial legionaire sides with the empire.
My Nord warrior will side with the stormcloaks.
My altmer mage will definitely NOT side with the stormcloaks. Maybe the empire but preferably the dominion.

My primary is a Breton stealth character whose primary goal is to have fun and avoid responsibility. He does things for grins and not serious reasons. If I play through either quest line with him it will probably be the Stormcloaks - first because the empire wanted to behead him and second for the romantic notion of rebellion.

No thats not what i mean i'm with the empire becaause i like the empire i don't care if its not the same as before im pro empire.

This was a matter which involved some mental toil for me.
Superficially both sides of the conflict fight for strong ideals. The writers and others involved with the lore and story of Skyrim were careful. They created beliefs so strong and so self-explaining that we can't choose the most important. While I was trying to do this, to choose, I found myself in constant dilemma. Everytime I came up with the "absolute truth" there was always a counterpart as strong as the former.
So I had to "think", to disembowel the ideas and reflect them in the near future.

It's more appropriate to begin with the Stormcloaks so I can compare them to the Imperials.

The Stormcloaks rushed into a war "claiming" that they were fighting for Talos and Skyrim.
Talos unified Tamriel! Yet the stormcloaks despise all the other races but their own. They want to break off from the remnants of that empire, they will be the headsmen of Tiber's project. Ulfric used his "patriotic" ideas to conceal his interests, the true reasons that compel him. He wants to be the High King. In order to attain that he fooled his followers. What will be of an independant Skyrim? It will probably fall like all the other provinces. If Ulfric used his intellect to aid the empire in the fight against the Thalmor perhaps men could be victorious and bring the One back to the Eight. Ulfric Stormcloak, the Jarl of Windhelm wants Skyrim for himself and thanks to his foolhardiness men could become slaves of the mer again.

One could say the Empire is racist also because you see no mer, Khajiit or Argonian amongst their ranks. I find that a bit hard to believe. These three cultures, including the inhabitants of High Rock and Hammerfell are quite ambiguous and baroque in their interests and aims. Dunmer are so impetuous that it's almost impossible to find one of them in the Legion. They are deeply rooted, like the Hist, to their culture. They don't like the empire as the Nords and the Cyrodiils. I know that the Empire banned the worship of Talos and its adjacent brotherhoods and sisterhoods like the Blades and the Order of Talos. They had to! A lot to keep, lives to save! Alvor was deeply sad with the White-Gold Concordat, yet the empire went through times as tough before and has to keep itself united. Their true enemy is the Dominium, the Stormcloaks only worsened a situation that was appalling by itself. Skyrim without Cyrodiil, Cyrodiil without Skyrim can't defend themselves, can't avoid the Aldmeri Tamriel. If the Thalmor reach their goals not only Talos will be forbidden but also the Eight, Zenithar, Dibella, Stendarr, Julianos, Arkay, Mara, Kynareth and Akatosh. The Empire with Skyrim is the last bastion of men. Everyone, including those damned Gold-Skinned Snotty Evil Animals, owe their existence to Attrebus Mede, Sul, Anna?g Ho?nart and the audacious Glim, they were the transition between the Septim Empire and the Mede Empire, despite this they knew the Mede Empire was important and defended it, kept Umbriel at bay.
It's not the Septim Dinasty, Titus Mede defended everyone from the Thalmor and other threats, kept everyone guarded before Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" were even peas inside wombs.

Personally I don't like imperial concepts in the real world but if Tamrielic men want to survive they need to be united. Remeber: "You should've acted they are already here"- It's not too late to stop them- "The dawn of Akatosh's bright glory may banish the coming darkness."(Uriel Septim VII, 27th Last Seed 4th Era 433). Akatosh, praised by men.

Skyrim is the Mother and Father of the Empire.

This is completely false, and ignores not only the existence of High Rock but the actual reality of the Dominion's options if they ever chose to go on the offensive again. If the Dominion attacked again, Cyrodiil would fall, and depending on what Hammerfel does, the Dominion would have no choice but to either go to war with Hammerfel again (which they already tried, and they basically lost after 5 years), try a suicidal attempt at invading Skyrim through its southern and/or eastern mountains, or try an even more suicidal and expensive sea invasion that will tie up a significant portion of their forces for far too long to be feasible.

And I'm not going to go over the utter falseness of your opinion of the Stormcloaks nor the Legion again.

Morrowind? Red Year + an Argonian invasion. Mede's actions: Do nothing
The original leaders of Summerset? Killed or subverted by the thalmor. Mede's actions: Do nothing
Valenwood? Invaded by thalmor, purged most of the bosmer. Mede's actions: give up the holdings, do nothing about it.
Orsinium? Sacked by Bretons and Redguards. Mede's actions: Escort any remaining orcs to skyrim, but don't dare say anything about what high rock or hammerfell did
Elsweyr? Fed lies about the moon by the thalmor, eventually secede from the Empire. Mede's actions: Do nothing.
Mede II? Inherited a terribly run empire from Mede I. Barely any military force.


All hail Mede I, glorious emperor of Tamriel a loose coalition of provinces.

I don't care for politics, i kill them all and let God sort it out.

Empire because I don't play as Nords. Does not make any sense to support people who want my race out of their country. I don't trust Ulfric, there would be nothing stopping him from purging other races in a genocide if he wins.

The Akaviri had little trouble stomping the Nords.

Edit: I feel it is better for the Nords to stop the Dominion in southern Cyrodiil than stop them in southern Skyrim. Better for both Cyrodiil and Skyrim.