[josh evans]

at the end is to do with the fans opinion not your claims

[Cameron Wood]

You didnt listen what i said from my past post on lets wait and see what happens. So my comment on that post is telling you im not the voice of the many but one of them. I've been chatting with alot of people from many site not only this one and alot say the same thing as I. Again again my claim the Nords, dunmer and arganion have hatred past and you cant argue that when i cant argue your claim. So your claim is vain as mine.

Actually, no.
Difference between opinion and hypothesis Im afraid.

Nord and Dunmer have worked together before and will do so again, this is a fact and not a new one.
Argonian slaves have traditionally been sold into slavery by the Argonians themselves so Im not seeing this hatred, really.
Secondly, an individual Argonian likely does not matter to the Hist and when youre talking Argonian long-term planning, youre talking about the Hist.
The Dunmer will follow the Triune. The Tribunal has no reason not to know about the heartland threat, and no reason not to ally themselves when this means a greater chance of victory.

Again, these are all facts, supported by lore.

All Im hearing from you is 'they hate each other', which is first of all not true and secondly does not prevent an alliance.

[Louise]

Not Opinion- The evidence you claiming the races didnt have a hatred but some reason this happened?

Aldmer and Argonain had many conflicts

1E 240 — Skyrim conquers Morrowind and high rock
1E 401 — The Chimer and Dwemer uniteThe Indoril Nerevar and Dumac Dwarfking unite the Chimer and Dwemer of Morrowind against the occupying forces of Skyrim, finally pushing the Nords out in 1E 416.
1E 416 — The Nords are driven out of Morrowind Nords are driven out of Morrowind by the uniting of the Chimer and Dwemer. Nerevar and Dumac unanimously are elected as Leaders of the first Council of Resdayn, and it flourishes under their leadership. Peace among the Chimer, the elves, and the dwarves, brings an unprecedented prosperity and flowering of both cultures. But of course you are saying this didnt happen- it did as your claim they work together and they did. Like i said many many time your claim is Valid as mine. only way to find out if this breaks lore is by the fans. Lore can change as you can see

[Inol Wakhid]

All of this isnt REALITY but a LORE.. it can be broken at anytime given

[Marine Arrègle]

(text)

That is all first era lore overhttp://www.imperial-library.info/content/tamriel-timeline(!) years before the relevant events of the MMO.
Do you still hold a grudge against the Romans?
Because Dunmer are not Chimer by the way, the main difference is the Tribunal.

I think you mean Dunmer when you wrote Aldmer, but anyway the point is moot.
As I explained a few posts ago, in TES an entire race is not one trope.
As I explained a few times now, most the Argonian slaves of Morrowind are in fact sold into slavery by the Argonians themselves. Youre assuming hositility where there is none, based on two wrong assumptions.

Your claim is not as valid due to being misinformed, Im sorry.

[meghan lock]

That is all first era lore over 2000(!) years before the relevant events of the MMO.
Do you still hold a grudge against the Romans?
Because Dunmer are not Chimer by the way, the main difference is the Tribunal.

Youre claim is not as valid due to being misinformed, Im sorry.

There was many more but I chose that one to point and who are you to say they do or dont. Are you God of Tamriel? lol..lol Your claims is also Valid.. Who can say they became friends or foes 1 year ago to 1 secound ago. you can't because its a LORE not REALITY... so yours is also Valid. I'm not going to Argue because ive proven to you how yours is Valid as mine but I cant help it if you are blind. It was fun debating a un-winnable debate but I have to Work pretty soon. Like i said again again again again again and again to you and your friend asll we can do is wait. Goodnight, actually morning

[alyssa ALYSSA]

There was many more but I chose that one to point and who are you to say they do or dont. Are you God of Tamriel? lol..lol Your claims is also Valid.. Who can say they became friends or foes 1 year ago to 1 secound ago. you can't because its a LORE not REALITY... so yours is also Valid. I'm not going to Argue because ive proven to you how yours is Valid as mine but I cant help it if you are blind. It was fun debating a un-winnable debate but I have to Work pretty soon. Like i said again again again again again and again to you and your friend asll we can do is wait. Goodnight, actually morning

Im Merari, the lore-monkey.
Have a good night

[CArlos BArrera]

Dunmer and Chimer are the same people the only difference is not Tribunal because the Tribunal Mortal gods lost there powers in the 3rd era. the difference of the chimer and dunmer is is the dunmer is cursed but they are the same people as the Nede are nords now.. same people.. Misinformed? so none of that conflict didnt happen? im sorry to say it did happen and the hatred in that time was still around as it cared on. who says it did or not. what this arguement was about in the first place. Just think about that

[des lynam]

Dunmer and Chimer are the same people the only difference is not Tribunal because the Tribunal Mortal gods lost there powers in the 3rd era. the difference of the chimer and dunmer is is the dunmer is cursed but they are the same people as the Nede are nords now.. same people.. Misinformed? so none of that conflict didnt happen? im sorry to say it did happen and the hatred in that time was still around as it cared on. who says it did or not. what this arguement was about in the first place. Just think about that

Goodnight hope to debate more of this with you.. really have to go.. put ur comment down ill read it when i get back on

[John N]

Dunmer and Chimer are the same people the only difference is not Tribunal because the Tribunal Mortal gods lost there powers in the 3rd era. the difference of the chimer and dunmer is is the dunmer is cursed but they are the same people as the Nede are nords now.. same people.. Misinformed? so none of that conflict didnt happen? im sorry to say it did happen and the hatred in that time was still around as it cared on. who says it did or not. what this arguement was about in the first place. Just think about that

Correct, misinformed.
The Dunmer are not the Chimer for the same reason Italians are not Romans.
Misinformed as, once more, assuming an entire race is one single trope instead of consisting of many factions and fashions.
Did I say only difference? I thought I said main difference.

Main difference as in religious and cultural, and it is.

[Elea Rossi]

i dont have to go to work in one more hour.

This Claim is also Valid because have you played morrowind? Almalexia was a chimer after the curse happen her skin stayed gold and vivic had half and half because of the heart and tools. In the game she is called Dunmer and she says alot "her people". So Chimer and Dunmer are the same people and not all Dunmer are part of the Tribunal so that was misleading on your half because there are still tribes that are against the tribunal and daedra worshippers still( a religion they worship before the tribunal that still cares on). In the game the Dunmer said many times again how they hate the nord because of battle of red mountain. If you say that is wrong im sorry to say you are very very misinformed. Says it through out the game and its the 3rd Era. If they had a hatred of the nords of the 3rd era because of the battle of red mountain who is to say they dont in 2nd Era. If you want to put real events in There are many tribes in Iraq that have a hatred for each other back before christ was born and still today. More famouse is Israel and Muslims that been around many many years. So you are also Valid

[Dona BlackHeart]

i dont have to go to work in one more hour.

This Claim is also Valid because have you played morrowind? Almalexia was a chimer after the curse happen her skin stayed gold and vivic had half and half because of the heart and tools. In the game she is called Dunmer and she says alot "her people". So Chimer and Dunmer are the same people and not all Dunmer are part of the Tribunal so that was misleading on your half because there are still tribes that are against the tribunal and daedra worshippers still( a religion they worship before the tribunal that still cares on). In the game the Dunmer said many times again how they hate the nord because of battle of red mountain. If you say that is wrong im sorry to say you are very very misinformed. Says it through out the game and its the 3rd Era. If they had a hatred of the nords of the 3rd era because of the battle of red mountain who is to say they dont in 2nd Era. If you want to put real events in There are many tribes in Iraq that have a hatred for each other back before christ was born and still today. More famouse is Israel and Muslims that been around many many years. So you are also Valid

Chimer are not Dunmer for the same reason Romans are not Italians.
All (Resdayn) Chimer turned to Dunmer at the time of the curse, even the Tribunal.
However, being gods their appearance is a matter of choice and wholly up to them.
Note that they did not ascend until after the curse.

And I dont know how often I need to explain that in TES a race does not consist of a singular trope before it sinks in and you quit making statements that assumes that they are.

[Elea Rossi]

Chimer are not Dunmer for the same reason Romans are not Italians.
All (Resdayn) Chimer turned to Dunmer at the time of the curse, even the Tribunal.
However, being gods their appearance is a matter of choice and wholly up to them.

i didnt say the Chimer is Dunmer i said they are the same people. Italian are the same people Itailians because thats there anstisters. same as the greek anisisters as the geeks today They Are The Same People. Our fourth Fathers are not like americans today because we are from a different time period? No they are americans back then as they are today. We are the same People (read my last posts) I said People same People

[N Only WhiTe girl]

i didnt say the Chimer is Dunmer i said they are the same people. Italian are the same people Itailians because thats there anstisters. same as the greek anisisters as the geeks today They Are The Same People. Our fourth Fathers are not like americans today because we are from a different time period? No they are americans back then as they are today. We are the same People (read my last posts) I said People same People

Same people from the same country .. difference is the curse. So you are saying they are not related at all to the Chimers.. Chimers are a whole different Elf then the Dunmer? that the Curse popped out different elf and the chimers disappear... no the name changed because of the curse but they are the same people

[Brittany Abner]

i didnt say the Chimer is Dunmer i said they are the same people. Italian are the same people Itailians because thats there anstisters. same as the greek anisisters as the geeks today They Are The Same People. Our fourth Fathers are not like americans today because we are from a different time period? No they are americans back then as they are today. We are the same People (read my last posts) I said People same People

They were restructured thouroughly in societal and religious practices.
For all intents and purposes, Chimer and Dunmer have little in common.
The point was that Im not angry at Italians because the Romans enslaved my Germanic ancestors and neither have the Nords any reason to be so hostile towards the Dunmer.

And for the last time, please quit assuming an entire race consists of one trope. It does not.
Not all Nord hate Dunmer, they never have. They have worked together in the past and will do so in the future.
You must see things in view of the current age and political climate and not just in the nonsensical assumption that Nords hate Dunmer.

[Markie Mark]

Now we come back from our last argument about Facts and Opinion. In the the games there are Dunmer and Nords saying they hate each other because of the past. There are some they dont. it all comes back here where its your own opinion on the Lore who does and who doesnt by the fans. I proven my facts because it says it in the game morrowind. If you say they didnt hate each other because of the past you are misinformed. Says it in the game. Are you saying they dont say that in the game? Play it again and read what they say to you again and this is the 3rd era let you know. Back to the topic this new online game is Broken when they fans dont except this in the lore. we went off topic you are forgetting the whole reason. The Topic is that this isnt REAL. You can justify all you can but the man with the pin and paper from the game developers can crush the lore with one stroke like i feel and many other i pvssyd with feels that they are doing in this game. I'm not saying dont play the game or this game isnt coming out.. in fact it is.. the fact is people are upset and alot of fans are moving away from this game because its breaking the lore they grew into. thats the fact. u can argue and can defend it. Fans are leaving is the truth. Others are leaving this game because its a MMO and it will bring those kids from WOW that dont care about the lore and ruin the experience . there are many many others. You cant say why fans are upset and that they dont like the developers putting this in the lore. when it comes out and if many many fans leave because of it breaks the Lore from the fans view. Don't think Bethesda airnt going to wipe this under the rug if it fails like they did from past comic books from my daggerfall.. that lore hasnt came back up? hmmm why is that. I have the Comic books at my place about the Red guard ... hmmmm ... why was that not added. because it was broken because the fans didnt except it. again again back to the point at hand.. this is all valid valid valid

[Sunnii Bebiieh]

(sigh) So the debate is still raging? Merari at this point I recommend not bothering. He has his opinion, as misinformed as it may be, and he will not change it.

Just want to say a two things.

Mutual Hatred does not prevent alliances when a greater threat or enemy arises. This kind of thing is shown in all forms of media all the time and is seen throughout our own world. Just because two groups hate one another does not mean they won't work together towards a goal. They may not like it but they can and will work together.

Not everyone is the same in one race. While a good deal of Industrial Era US Americans distrusted African Americans and or viewed them as inherently inferior, many also did not. In fact those that didn't actually fought their own brethren to do so. This is also happens with the Dunmer and Argonians. The Dunmer fought a Bloody civil war to abolish slavery right after the events of Morrowinds. House Indoril and Redoran were crushed by Hlaalu and Dres and slavery was abolished. Dunmer fought against Dunmer for Argonians, Khajiit, and all the rest to be free from themselves. The Nords also welcomed in the Dunmer at a time when they could have absolutely crushed their ancient enemies. If they truly hated them don't you think they would have taken advantage of that? Or maybe, just maybe they are not quite as hateful as you think. I think you have grossly overestimated the hatred of the TES races in the game. If there is one thing that holds true it is that all people are adaptable to change despite being resistant towards it.

[darnell waddington]

(text)

Ive come to the same conclusion as Ive said in just about every post not to confuse a race with a trope and he continues to hinge his arguments on just that, so its pointless.

The crux of the matter is exactly how you detailed.
As in real life, Elder Scrolls races are far more fluid and varied in their opinions, practices and morals than the 'all Minbari are crystal spire atlanteans' stereotypes of races we see in popular media.

[maria Dwyer]

thats your o

(sigh) So the debate is still raging? Merari at this point I recommend not bothering. He has his opinion, as misinformed as it may be, and he will not change it.

Just want to say a two things.

Mutual Hatred does not prevent alliances when a greater threat or enemy arises. This kind of thing is shown in all forms of media all the time and is seen throughout our own world. Just because two groups hate one another does not mean they won't work together towards a goal. They may not like it but they can and will work together.

Not everyone is the same in one race. While a good deal of Industrial Era US Americans distrusted African Americans and or viewed them as inherently inferior, many also did not. In fact those that didn't actually fought their own brethren to do so. This is also happens with the Dunmer and Argonians. The Dunmer fought a Bloody civil war to abolish slavery right after the events of Morrowinds. House Indoril and Redoran were crushed by Hlaalu and Dres and slavery was abolished. Dunmer fought against Dunmer for Argonians, Khajiit, and all the rest to be free from themselves. The Nords also welcomed in the Dunmer at a time when they could have absolutely crushed their ancient enemies. If they truly hated them don't you think they would have taken advantage of that? Or maybe, just maybe they are not quite as hateful as you think. I think you have grossly overestimated the hatred of the TES races in the game. If there is one thing that holds true it is that all people are adaptable to change despite being resistant towards it.

Like I said this is all your own Opinion also

[Sasha Brown]

who is to say they still have hatred or dont.. thats what i was saying the whole time.. developers will find out if this breaks lore when it releases

[gary lee]

As an admitted non-lore expert, it seems the people who are arguing that the lore is, in fact supported by what we know of TESO thus far are making the more logical and rational arguments.

[Vahpie]

thats your o


Like I said this is all your own Opinion also

Cool man.

[Jade Barnes-Mackey]

who is to say they still have hatred or dont.. thats what i was saying the whole time.. developers will find out if this breaks lore when it releases

That's a very good point

[AnDres MeZa]

That's a very good point

Thanks I try to describe to them but i guess some people are blind and try to prove something as valid

[Bambi]

developers will find out if this breaks lore when it releases

How does that work exactly ?