Eh, I'm of the school that more choice in TES is always better. I'd love to see the Open Lock spell return, among many, many others. It wouldn't unbalance the game as is, because the minigame is based on your skill, not your character's. And for most of us, the minigame is rather easy to beat (not that I'm complaining; I hated Oblivion's minigame and used auto-attempt instead--which was another nice option). You don't need the lockpicking perks, you don't even need to have a high lockpicking level. Just a lot of lockpicks (which no longer weigh anything), a lot of patience, and maybe some personal skill (not required with enough picks). By contrast, getting an open lock spell would require you to invest in your magicka pool and train the skill high enough to get the spell in the first place--more work than you'll ever have to put in with lockpicking the way it is now.

Personally, if I had my way the entire lockpicking system (magic and mundane) would go back to the way it was in Morrowind, where it was much more dependent on your character's skill and/or willingness to buy better picks, or scrolls/items, or make a spell with a chance to fail (again based on skill). I never stopped while playing and thought, "Gee, it svcks that I could go about opening this lock several ways. This system is broken!" I don't think Skyrim should be Morrowind. There are definitely things that I prefer in Skyrim. I would just like to see the mechanics of Skyrim with the content of Morrowind, if that makes any sense. I play TES games for a certain flavor, and I'd hate to see them slowly lose it.

Wow you completely missed the point there didnt you champ? Of course removing the open lock spell did not improve the lock picking skill however it did make it more valuable, why pick up the lock picking skill when you can have a magic school that does it better and more? Why play anything other than a mage when they can do everything the other archtypes do better?

But I dont understand what is so "svcky" about picking locks and how a magic spell that bypasses them without effort is any more fun to use?

this^
Exactly
There was about 100+ Spell effects in Morrowind, and there was thousands of combinations with spellmaking, in Skyrim there are only 86 spells to choose from, most of which share the same effect.
lol, very funny!

So let me get this straight and correct me if I am wrong.

In other Elder Scrolls games there were open spells and security.

A master/very hard chest could be opened at any level with a lockpick.
A master/very hard chest required a high level in Alteration and a spell.

Bringing back Open spells makes lockpicking easier how? I can see removing it because lockpicking itself is so easy but how can anyone say it was removed for balance?

The lockpicking skill should just be removed. You don't need any level in it to open even the hardest locks. You don't need any perks in it to open any of the hardest locks. What exactly is the point of it? You can't say roleplaying because that's what mages did with open spells.

What u said was soooo good, im puting it in the OP.

You do it for roleplay value. As is we are forced to use it, in other games I had some characters that picked locks and other who used spells.
It simply takes away nothing to have it in game, it takes away from the game not having it.

The lockpick minigame should have been thrown out altogether. There's little actual skill involved, and time freezes while you're lockpicking. Its very dumbed down for the sake of interactivity.

Then people wouldn't be so uptight about Open spells.

Stop crying, you say that you want to specialize as a mage but start crying when you see something that your mage cant do, it is like calling a hairdresser to do a high precision coupling alignment on a steam turbine, unless he has skills outside of hairdressing odds are he wont be able to do it. Picking locks and pockets, disarming traps and slipping by the enemy undetected are what define the Theif skill set, if you start allowing mages to do everything the theif can do but better then why bother with the Theif skill set at all? If you want to play a pure mage then fine however dont expect your character to be able to do everything that the other archtypes can do but better, and unless you join the Theives Guild (which if you are a pure mage you wont do) you will not be forced into situations that you cant resolve, if you are talking about not being able to access the loot of a locked chest however such is the price you pay for having such a strict stance on character archtypes.

That being said I dont see how having a mage or warrior learn how to pick locks breaks character, there are plenty of reasons why these characters would learn how to pick a lock however if you imagination is limited to creating characters that can only stick to skills that relate to their current archtype then that is your problem.

Well (using my shawl to wipe my wire-rimmed bifocals and creaking down into my rocking chair), back in the day, ooooh, I guess it was nigh onto a couple of hundred years ago... there were mages over at the Imperial University who could open any gol-fangled lock out there... while hanging upside down with a horde of them Daedra breathing down their necks... hehehe (cough, cough)... yep, them mages were a versatile bunch... a bit stuffy, but versatile... seems as I recall hearin' about mages who could float on air, too... but maybe that was that group from over in High Rock or maybe Vvardenfell before that mountain blew up... anyway, best as I can recollect, them fellers who knew that spell never told anyone... probably because they got et or somethin'... they was casting spells at locks when they shoulda been castin' 'em at them Daedra breathing down their necks... 'er somethin' like that... memory's not what it used to be...

As many have stated...

What's the point of the Lockpicking skill tree if any lock can be picked by any skill?

The unlock spell was in alteration not every skill.

The point is roleplay value and not having skill sets shoved down a mages throat.

I'm speaking of our current Lockpicking skill path. What is the point of having the skill, with perks, if you can unlock any chest at any Lockpicking skill level.

Especially when Lockpicking is the only actual mechanic, seemingly, that is entirely in the hands of the player in terms of how well they do with little to no % assistance.

If the open lock spell made lockpicking redundant, why not throw out the lockpicking skill? Beth haven't been hesitant in throwing out skills before.

For that matter, why are there maces, axes, swords and daggers in the game? They all do the same thing, but I need to choose one and I'm not sure I can be trusted to make that choice. Please get rid of three of those Beth.

What's that? I can kill enemies with weapons OR magic? That's it, I can't deal with all these choices you're shoving down my throat! I'm outta here.

I see are you trying to debate the ponit of the skill or the lack of options and how a lock and unlock spell could open up those options.

The lockpicking skill is useless I can open up any chest with no perks.

We do need more choices however and certain spells and spell creation gave us mages that.

I do not understand why they took it out. But on the other hand I do not see why people that are playing mage are upset. Atleast 75% or more of the chests I find are not even locked or trapped. So you guys aren't really missing out on anything.

they never removed any spells though, they just didnt add any, its not like they just start with the last game and then remove stuff they have to recreate everything again

Obviously because that silly spell NEUTRALIZE the lockpicking skill, which was there since daggerfall. if not arena
I suppose they could have made it so that opem lock give you an etheral lockpick, so if you fail you just cast the spell again and no lockpick get broken
or any other clever effectm instead of totally removing it

As for no spell effects .... the spells have physic effects now, so a lot of the destruction spells can actually do stuff that s not officially listed

now for sure it all need expanding. they should find a way to bring back flyinf & levitation in a imited way
because it was sort of cool in morrowind how they expect you to fly and mean them at the top of the tower,
with no stairs whatsoever !!! meaning you need to fly to get there. that was really cool.

their main fear is of course breaking the lod boundaries, because some of that stuff is an optical illusion, and won t look as good up close and personal
it is expected that you cannot cross certain boundaries. and then there are tactical issues
morrowind AI svcked because the player was the only one flying arround and using the spellmaker
it was totaly unfair for the ai and npcs

Thay have removed several spells from Morrowind to Skyrim.

no they havent they remove very few spells in the games, Oblivion only lost Darkness and the lock spell, they just decide not to add it, making new spell effects take a lot of work and involves changing the actual coding of the game and because every game is different they never remove spells they just dont make spells

TES has always been about making your own story. This whole skill/archetype debate is pointless. All of the old spell effects should be in game with the same quirky customizable aspects that we have come to appreciate about the series.

People love and appreciate the series because of the broad brush given to the players to customize their characters and adventures. Removing those options removes a core part of the game elements that make it what it is instead of another Zelda, fable, final fantasy or what have you. Game mechanics are important, however for a TES game choice is more important.

Let me the player worry about balance. In every TES game you could power game the system into hugely powerful characters who did it all or had epic items of insanity that were better than everything else. Very little has changed in Skyrim other than a shift from one bucket into another in order to get this outcome.

So now we lose some character development options, with the same outcome. Again I say put the options back in and let us decide. To the new comers to the series I would recommend reading up on the last two titles and try to understand where the vets are coming from.

I want my horse water walking spell back personally

I don't know what you're smoking, but they removed Weakness spells, Absorb spells, most summoning spells, Damage Health/Fatigue/Magicka, Open spells, Drain spells, Cure Poison, Cure Disease, Spell Absorption spells, Resist spells, Fortify spells and so on.

Er, there were way more spells that didnt make it from Morrowind to Oblivion. and we lost plenty of effects from Oblivion to Skyrim.

That is your arguement because every game is different they did not remove anything.

We have lost to name a few.

Mark/recall
command
poison
dispel
water walking
damage health, stamina, fatigue
weakness spells
refect
absorb
reflect damage
levitate
various summons
bound armor
sound
silence
jump
slowfall
swift swim
open/lock
drain spells
intervention spells
detect enchanment/key

Just to name a few we have lost several spells from Morrowind to Skyrim.

yes there were spells that werent in all 3 games but hardly any spells were cut they just didnt add them in the next game

I am just saying that Todd didnt just go to the coders one day and said to take out some spell effect they just werent ever added into Skyrim

They should have added them to the sequel to Oblivion.