He challenged the High King to single combat in the old way, and Torygg lost because he was too weak. The Imperials and their milkdrinker lovers keep throwing around this "murder" accusation. No, every Nord tortured to death in some Thalmor dungeon cell because the Empire is too weak to try to stop it, that's murder.

General MacArthur retreated, would you call him a coward!

Because the Stormcloaks are actively participating in and accelerating their own loss of sovereignty and lives. It's also widely accepted that, regardless of how you rationalize it, Ulfric is a tad bit xenophobic and radical to the point of incompetence.

The impression I got is that the nobles and royalty (with the exception of the Emperor himself) are all arrogant and short sighted. They look down upon your character no matter the value of the clothes worn, deeds done, nor wealth obtained. They all serve their own selfish interest.

Each race has their own home land and from my understanding and experience, each place displays considerable discrimination towards outsiders. The Imperial occupied Skyrim which would be fine except that the Imperial are now the puppet of the Thalmor. This basically means that the best chance that Skyrim has to survive is one free of the Thalmor puppets. The next war won't even be a war, but rather a coup d'état and the only provinces spared will be those who have sought and gained independence.

As a RL reflection, this game kinda reminds me of Scotland fighting for its independence from England back around ~1300 AD. My last name is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Campbell, I have red hair, I'm from Nova Scotia (Latin for New Scotland) and more specifically from Cape Breton (known for it's strong Scottish culture and history). Strange though, that I picked to play a Kahjiit rather than a Nord.

you can escape with either Hadvar (imperials) or Ralof (stormcloak)

This was an utter lack of competence on the Emperors part, it makes one wonder if he should remain on the throne. I think our empire needs a new leader to maybe restore the Third Era empire.

Without the Empire the Thalmar would have conquered Skyrim during the Great War.

I was thinking about this and to me if Ulfric had been campaigning to replace Mede as Emperor I could view aligning with him as a more logical choice. It would still entirely play into him being a human supremacist and a power hungry [censored], but at least he would seem like an intelligent power hungry [censored]. As it is in game he seems like he would be fine if the world burned, as long as he burned last. Not exactly the kind of person I could see myself supporting.

I join the Empire because (a) The Thalmor aren't making a real effort to stamp out Talos worship, rather they seem to be targeting Stormcloak sympathizers and other figures whose arrests would further incite anti-Imperial sentiment, ( in reuning Skyrim, you've helped the Empire reverse its downward trend and ensured that if the Thalmor invade again, there will be a united front against them, and © make Skyrim a better place for Dunmer, Argonians, and Imperials, and © even with Imperial control, the Thalmor either aren't or can't successfully stamp out Talos worship even in cities where they have a presence. They never bothered to get rid of the Talos Shrine in Markarth or Whiterun, and the Imperials turn a blind eye to Talos worship, as I believe

Because soem might not be bothered by the fact that one imperial captain was a moron and believe that they are the best option in the long run for skyrim and tamriel?
Personally I'm currently at a loss when it comes to chosing sides since there is good and bad sides of each faction.

Both leader are very flawed as most humans are, its interesting to see that in this game we do not have the rose are red violets are blue Uriel VII. While I liked him a lot it never really got into the dark side of him. I personally would not follow Mede II or Ulfric, but my characters would follow one or the other because they support ones views. Or they see the unity in a united empire and what it could be: they could see the benefits of freedom and what that could entail. I just make my characters align with whoever best fits their world view for roleplaying reasons. Then I have some that refuse either faction.

I'm not saying to make him squeaky clean, it just to me, doesn't make sense that he is all Skyrim is for the Nords! rah rah, when Skyrim has been a part of the Empire since its founding. That is a big part of why no Nord character want to break apart from the Empire and it makes more sense that Ulfric would want to reform it, with himself as new Emperor. That would make sense in the history of Skyrim and wouldn't seem like he is trying to make a break from what had been the reality of Skyrim before that. You know have him use a, "Expel the barbarians, strength to the Emperor(in this case meaning me)" kind of rationale. It'd just be more logical than my view of he wants to rule an independent Skyrim long enough to see the Thalmor encircle around it and choke it out.

Yes.

Interesting....

Lack of incompetence or you mean lack competence? Either way, it's clear that Mede II was unfit to rule and the Empire needs a need figure on the throne. Though I don't know if that will bond the relationships between the provinces that the Empire turn their backs on or lost.

I think Ulfric wants to conquer Skyrim then maybe extend his campain into the empire and eventually gain control of it. He is a power hungry egomaniac, I got that when I first set foot in the castle and listened in on the fist conversation he was having with his general. I just find their darker motives interesting and intriguing from a political standpoint. Also with the looming threat of the war that would bring about an even more savage train of thought: I see Ulfric as hiding behind a 'free Skyrim' banner that is really a cover up because he would like the power for himself. I was mainly getting at in the post above I have my characters follow either or faction based on one small belief or an even grander one it just depends on them really.

The Stormcloakes are naive, is why. Why divide the Empire?

Thats what I meant. I will edit.

A new leader could pick up the the shards of whats left in the empire and rebuild it to what in once was. I think the people would rally around a strong leader who would be willing an open rebellion against their current Thalmor masters.

I, for one, hope the Empire gets dissolved in the lore. It would make things infinitely more interesting.

Lol..Talos worship?? The Thalmor banning the worship of Talos is the least of Tamriel's problems. For the better half of 100 years, the Thalmor have been positioning themselves to break the Imperial alliance between the nations of Tamriel and conquer them while they are divided and in disarray. Then the Thalmor plan on enslaving/eradicating anyone who is Non-Altmer. The Thalmor in my opinion are comparable to the Nazis...They see themselves as the supreme race and wish to do away with all others.

My mind @ first with with the stormcloaks, but as time went and visiting windhelm I decided the lesser evil being Imperials even though they deslike the thalmor, they had to side with them on the treaty to save the whole.

Though so.

Yeah, I feel now that Mede II has...Stepped down...What the Empire need's is a new leader. One who is tactical, charismatic and strong. He may be able to restore faith and get the once lost nations to back the Empire, once again.

Another good reason to join the Stormcloaks: You sympathize with the Thalmor and/or want to see the Empire rip itself appart

Then you should be aware of the fact that the Imperial Rome weren't exactly Good Guys. Remember Julius Caesar's mass murder of the Gauls? The burning of conquered cities and killing of every man, woman and child, on several occasions throughout the history of Rome? Slavery on massive scale? Executions of prisoners of war as public entertainment? The Imperial Rome was a military dictatorship, and a bunch of unwashed barbarians compared to several neighboring civilizations. They've only enjoyed such positive portrayal throughout the history because monarchs have fancied themselves as the inheritors of I. Caesar's mantle.

Empires exist by definition to funnel wealth and resources from the periphery to the central, ruling province. Which is what the Cyrondiilic Empire has been doing throughout the history of Tamriel, while looking down on it's subjects. Much like the Roman Empire of RL history. And now they somehow expect loyalty from their provinces when things get tough.