This is one of the stupidest things I've read on this forum, and that is quite a feat. It renders your whole wall of text very ironic that you're using a sixist argument to decry the Nords for being racist.

Ulfric did what the empire asked of him- took over Markarth- and then they sold him out because the elves found out. The empire is weak, cowardly, and corrupt. That was when Ulfric decided that enough was enough. With leadership like that, humanity deserves to die out.

Ulfric and Galmar also want to rebuild, and then take the fight to the Altmer. Everyone's so enamored of Free-Winter, but who would you rather have against the Dominion- a kindly guy who's repairing streets or a veteran warrior and general?

The Stormcloaks are insular and suspicious of other races, but the exaggeration about their supposed racism is ridiculous. Nazis? Give me a break. Every race in Tamriel looks down on the others and will take advantage of them for profit, power and territory. You can list off Nord atrocities but if you don't balance that out with all the crap the other races have done, it's meaningless and biased. Those complaining about the Nords are hypocrites, including the imperials who think they're the divines' gift to humanity.

Free-Winter is a veteran warrior.

1: If the Stormcloaks win, the Thalmor will be purged from Skyrim.
That is ONE good reason to go with the Stormcloaks.

2: Stormcloaks fight for freedom. That is one good reason to support the Stormcloaks.

3: Ulfric is the rightful king of Skyrim; The dead king ACCEPTED the duel. Single Combat.
When you bet, and lose, the winner is entitled to payment.
If you are not in the position to place a bet, you do not.
I assure you that cultural Nord Single Combat allows for shouts.
Ulfric wouldn't needed the shout, that was overkill, because the dead king was not a good warrior like Ulfric anyway.
Ulfric shouted to show his power, and to show how weak the empire's king was.

4: The Empire let the Thalmor kill hundreds upon hundreds of Talos worshippers.
-"Their fault for worshipping Talos!"
No it is not their fault they are persecuted by the Thalmor.
-"Their fault for the stormcloaks fighting for their cause!"
Wrong again. The ban came before the stormcloaks -- AND the stormcloaks do not fight on the behalf of all Talos-worshippers even though they fight for all Talos worshippers.


5: Those who say stormcloaks are racist have not followed the initial conversation with Ulfric.
He does not care about your or anybody else' race, his right hand man is a bleeding racist though.
Elves of all races have managed to gain the respect from nords through honest work.
Noone prevents anyone from building their own cities.

6: Those who say stormcloaks are racist have not played Morrowind.
Besides, racism in skyrim is nothing like real life racism.
What do you get when you mix an argonian and a dunmer? You get the realiziation that the biological real life term "race" has to have a wildly different meaning ingame, as genetics are non-existant in TES.
People in TES are namely like Pokemon: Children take the race of their mothers, and attributes from their fathers.
Argonian females mating with make nords create ONLY argonian children who have mead-breathing as well as water-breathing.

Actually my information is correct. This was not a slip in an attention to detail in any way. You simply misinterpreted it. The Orcs DO have a relation to the Aldmeri. A direct one in fact---they happen to be kissing cousins. So I regret to inform you that your observation about the Orcs origins isn't entirely correct. In fact, this has all been chronicled in the book called "The Pig Children". This historically precise work of TES lore--conveniently found at the Orc encampments and all across Skyrim---is designed to dispel misinformation in observations about this kind of Elven people.

You see, the Thalmor Dominion (aka the Altmer & Bosmer union), the Chimer (aka the Dunmer), Snow elves (aka the Falmer), Ayleid (extinct), Dwemer(missing in action), and yes Orsimer (Orcs)---are ALL descendants of the Mer. Furthermore, the Mer were Elven folk who were the original natives of Tamriel---which was one of two main points that I was trying to make in my post.

My second point was: all of the civil, racial, religious, and political strife that now occurs in Tamriel (and especially in Skyrim), can be traced back to the inability of these two founding races to coexist---Man and Mer. So all of the racial name calling and trolling being done in this thread is completley moot really. Simply because all of the intolerance through the ages of TES lore stems from the history of these two founding races. And the case of the Elven race is extremely complex, because that is what TES is all centered on--the race of Mer and NOT Man as most seem to believe.

In regards to the comment you made about the Orc origins: just like the Dwemer and Chimer, the Orsimer were also led by an Elven champion by the name of Trinimac. Unfortunately, Trinimac was also afflicted with the Eleven People's greatest fundamental flaw---hubris. And just like his other vain Elven counterparts---the Tribunal in Vvardenfell---Trinimac also managed to piss off another Daedric Prince. Except this particular Daedric Prince wasn't particularly known for championing Man (or Mer's) best interest like Azura or the Nocturnal. And being the overly ambitious Elven Prince that he was, Trinimac's hubris predictably led him to piss off Boethia---one of the most diabolic Daedric Princes in all Oblivion. At which point, Boethia promptly rewarded Trinimac's audacity by putting him on his dinner menu. Unfortunately, Trinimac gave Boethia a bad case of indigestion, which caused Boethia to vomit him out…..

And Lo! The Daedric Prince Malacath was born of the nauseating, fetid mess that spewed out of Boethia's mouth. Starting to see a pattern here? Three vainglorious Chimer Princes of the Tribunal murdered their King in Morrowind and made themselves immortal; thereby pissing off Azura, one of the "good" Daedric Princes. For their transgressions, this Daedra decreed their followers (aka the Chimer who were Elven immigrants to Morrowind from Summerset) be transformed into the Dunmer. For their transgression against the race of Man, the once beautiful Snow Elves were similarly transformed into the Falmer and made virtually extinct. And for all his righteous attempts to foil that most Machiavellian of all Daedric Princes, the once vainglorious, and meddlesome Trinimac was transformed into the ugliest of all the Daedric Princes---along with his unsuspecting followers the Orsimer.

So all 3 Elven clans: the Dunmer, Falmer and Orcs--are really radical transformations of the same Elven natives who inhabited Summerset since the first humans immigrated to Tamriel. Which means the Altmer (followed by the Bosmer) are the only 2 elven groups who were never fundamentally altered in any way . They consider themselves the last 2 "pure" remaining Elven races. This may also explain why both of these Elven groups appear to get along so fabulously--forming the much reviled Thalmor Dominion. And perhaps why the Elven races where so susceptible toward enslaving the beast races (Argonians and Khajiit). And perhaps also why the Thalmor Altmers in particular, have such a bigoted and racial attitude toward all non Elven inhabitants in Tamriel. Given the history of the Mer, the ultimate goal of the Thalmor is not to tolerate--but exterminate---all men and beast folk from Tamriel. Period. So the racial trolling in this thread is completely pointless---these are the cards each of the human and elven races have been dealt. Each of these groups will roll the die according to how the TES devs forsee it .

And if you're still skeptical of the Origins of the Orcs to their distant cousins the Falmer, then study any of the Orcs you encounter in Skyrim. The Orsimer at any of the 4 Orc camps should be a great place to start. Next do some dungeon crawling into the Blackreach. Finally, unmask the first Falmer that you come across and take a good look at their facial features. Pay close attention to the shape of their ears and eyes….

As a final note: one of the faction quests provides 100% visual evidence of the Orc blood relation to their distant Falmer, Dunmer, and Thalmor Dominion cousins. Hopefully, you'll get to experience this part of TES lore. It's well worth that particular quest adventure!

And, if I'm not mistaken, the dark elf who said that is actually a high elf...

Keeping the Argonians out is likely to prevent them and the Dunmer from going at each other. You know, because the "poor" Argonians invaded Morrowind after the Vvardenfell eruption and slaughtered everything in sight. This was in return for the Dunmer doing the same to them. But of course the Nords are the only ones who kill other races...

The Altmer vendor in Windhelm indicates that the Dunmer are living in the Grey Quarter because they are too proud to do anything to establish themselves. The Hlaalus own a farm just outside the city that employs Nords, so obviously it is possible for Dunmer to advance themselves if they choose. A Dunmer farm worker tells you his family looks down on him for working for Nords. So who's more racist? The disaster in Morrowind was 150 years before game time, they aren't recent refugees- they choose to live in squalor because they won't knuckle down and do what's necessary, including what poor Nords have to do to make a life for themselves.

Nords have a Viking mentality- you aren't handed things for who you are, you have to prove yourself. The most one can say against Ulfric is that he is distracted by the war and isn't as socially progressive as others. Well, when you've got an enemy crawling around your territory who is powerful and literally wants the destruction of humanity- and who is there with the cooperation of the empire that claims to rule you- one should be forgiven for being a bit distracted.

How is it stupid? I mean when quite a few people on this forum have said "SONS MEANS EVERYONE BECAUSE SONS EVEN DESCRIBES THOSE BORN WITH A vegina BECAUSE SONS ENCOMPASSES EVERYBODY AND IS EQUIVELENT OF MAN BECAUSE SONS MEANS WOMEN TOO!"

Yet using you're own logic against you that would mean Nords are women. Dark elves, once King Helseth and Barenziah took power of House Hlaalu, pretty much abolished slavery yet Telvanni was too stuborn to leave it be which is what we have seen in Oblvion's Mehrune's Razor DLC.

Not only are they a bunch of crybaby women and complete idiotic racist regarding the stormcloaks, but it also doesn't help the fact that MANY, almost all armor in Skyrim made primarily by NOrds are either compossed of skirts or bulky dresses.

Ancient Nord Armor
Fur Armor ((all 4 skins))
Hide Armor
Studded Armor
Spike Armor
Iron Armor
Steel armor ((with that unsual fur skirt))
Wolf Armor ((sold -only- by Eorluf Grey Mane))
Dwarven Armor
Imperial Armor ((looks more like a dress honestly))
Stormcloak armor

Those are just some of the few off the top of my head. So it does support my argument. IT may be stupid to you but it makes sense to me in all fairness.

But not a war leader, and obviously not concerned about the Dominion. Ulfric's first priority after winning is to rebuild Skyrim in preparation to confront the Thalmor. All those nice social reforms will mean squat if the Thalmor are able to eradicate humanity, starting with their first priority of weakening Talos.

OMG, this is too idiotic to even address seriously. At least it's hilarious, in a scary sort of way.

Maybe I can try to answer in the poster's place.

In 1940 racial supremacists defeated France. They did no conquer the whole country but let the defeated keep a large part of it. They did however demand that the defeated country should pursue the politics of persecution and intolerance on its own territory as directed by the supremacists. It should also allow patrols of the victors inside its country te help with the execution of those policies.

In 175 racial and religious supremacists defeated the empire. They did not conquer etc, etc.

If he were to indeed be concerned with rebuilding Skyrim then he would start with the grey quarter if he was truly honest. But the man can't even be bothered to go to the Talos temple in his own city because he's just a bag of hot air.

To be honest all your points make you look like the idiot, not me.

Ok, that explains a lot. The stormcloaks want a country for their kin. But maybe the Argonians would've been accepted if they joined them? Celan provides a good point too, above. Sadly, we never get to see what happened to the Redguard who sought to join the Stormcloaks. Bethesda's random encounter system doesn't make much sense, because that same Redguard has been walking to Windhelm on tons of occasions already. When he enters the gates, he disappears.

Some excellent points.

At least one Stormcloak jarl has an Argonian housecarl- Sorli the Builder. Compare to Ingrod, the imperial jarl she replaces, whose household is all Nords. The jarl in Winterhold has a Dunmer steward, even though he is suspicious of elves. Jarl Laila in Riften has a Bosmer steward and is replaced by Maven Blackbriar if she's deposed by the imperials- I defy anyone to say that this is a better result.

So those who say the Stormcloaks are all but ready to initiate the ethnic cleansing of Skyrim and all is rosy for other races if the imperials win, I think you're just not paying attention to the true situation.

Also, someone mentioned Ulfric's lament in Sovngarde- Legate Rikke is also in despair in Sovngarde and talks about her regret over the war. The souls there are caught in Alduin's mist. So it's six and half dozen.

The Dunmer were invited to join the stormcloaks but refused. Thats implied when you first enter windhelm. Im not saying they are wrong to refuse to join, but that is what is keeping them in the grey quarter. They have a choice.

It's kind of karma on the part of the Dunmer, remember how racist they were in morrowind?

this

i really wish their was a way to take over the stormcloaks

He needs to rebuild Skyrim's armies. Why can't the Dunmer improve their own quarter? There are a few of them who do work hard and don't mind menial, honest work, and their shops and homes look orderly. The skooma-swilling ones in the Dunmer club just like to sit around and whine about their situation.

Ulfric is fighting for his people's freedom to worship as they please. The preservation of Talos is about more than religion. What does it matter if he goes to church or not? That's a petty criticism that means nothing. He grew up in a monastery and still shows respect for those spiritual traditions. But he's a governor, not a priest.
Sure. I'm not arguing that someone should support Ulfric because the imperials all wear skirts, as you're doing on the flip side. That's just... LOL....

Yea being down on Ulfriic because he doesnt go to church on sunday is a little loopy.

I said that it shouldn't matter he doesn't go to the temple.

Reading comprehension, dude.

Karma...? The Nords have hated the elves long before the events that happened in Morrowind.

Well, the Dunmer had their entire homeland blown up by a volcano, then conquered by the people that they had enslaved. I think they're on their way to atoning for their crimes without the help of the Nords.

Still, as I've said before...Most people debating about who's worse between the Empire/Stormcloaks are fools. Why are all of yo overlooking the fact that the Thalmor are bent on wiping out all Non-pure Elven races?? The Thalmor wish to destroy the mortal world and the "Bug in Jar" prophecy will further shed light on this. The Empire are merely incompetent lap-dogs of the Thalmor who cling to a long-dead "plan" to overthrow their Altmer oppressors and the Stormcloaks are ruled by a single-minded racist war monger. Both sides are harbingers of their own doom.

Indeed, but you shouldn't judge the Stormcloaks only by their leader. I am a Stormcloak mainly because I'm against the Empire. I chose to join House Redoran and sided with the Ashlanders in Morrowind, too.

Why does that matter? Their crimes against Argonians, sure, but a nature disaster doesn't make them atone for anything.

And so have the elves. Ever since Ysgramor came, the elves have sought the end of humanity. Remember Sarthal? It's mutual.

Well here's the thing, in the current version of SKyrim we can't kill off the Thalmor yet. I myself do not see why the empire has a hard time beating them. When I did the Diplomatic Immunity those pitiful high elves that dared call themselves mages and warriors went down so fast with my now deleted khajit mage who at the time was around levlel 30 when she did that quest. Honestly Stormcloaks ((and renegade imperials llike the ones in Mzulft)) gave me a harder time than some pitiful man-hating elf in a really baddass looking robe with pitiful enchantments.