Anyone else's opinions on the rebellion completely change at : V - Skyrim

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:29 pm

I think it may have been

Spoiler

One of the Dossiers you find during the main quest Diplomatic Immunity

but i am not certain. There is a book though. It may have been in one of the books talking about the Dwemer too, but i forget =/ rawr.

I'll try and find it

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:31 pm

"Every official who worked for the Forsworn was put to the sword, even after they had surrendered. Native women were tortured to give up names of Forsworn fighters who had fled the city or were in the hills of the Reach. Anyone who lived in the city, Forsworn and Nord alike, were executed if they had not fought with Ulfric and his men when they breached the gates. "You are with us, or you are against Skyrim" was the message on Ulfric's lips as he ordered the deaths of shopkeepers, farmers, the elderly, and any child old enough to lift a sword that had failed in the call to fight with him."

http://www.uesp.net/...ear_of_Markarth

And yet Braig contradicts this. When he was tossed in prison, he said it was the jarl(Igmund) executing people left and right.

History is often rewritten by the victors. After Igmund and co tossed Ulfric under the bus, they pinned any other misdeeds that occured on him too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ftVwi_AhhnY#t=974s

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:44 am

I'll try and find it

Im trying too, it's driving me mad lol. The UESP doesn't appear to list all the journals/notes so... Damn.....

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:21 pm

I find it funny that that some people point that ulfric agrees to a moot after the empire is driven out, except that all the jarls are now stormcloak supporters.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:38 am

Im trying too, it's driving me mad lol. I am pretty sure it was a book, if not then it must have been a convosation with an npc >,<

Igmund will tell you that he offered the free worship as an incentive to get Ulfric's band of men to help him out. He admits it was a foolish thing to do, but that he was desperate. When the thalmor came calling, someone had to take the fall.

I find it funny that that some people point that ulfric agrees to a moot after the empire is driven out, except that all the jarls are now stormcloak supporters.

Except no jarl will agree to a moot until the civil war is over. It isn't just Ulfric. The moot cannot meet until hostilities cease. Seeing as it's the empire pushing the hostilities, it's on them to stop. The moot would've met had the empire not tried to intervene.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:21 am

Igmund will tell you that he offered the free worship as an incentive to get Ulfric's band of men to help him out. He admits it was a foolish thing to do, but that he was desperate. When the thalmor came calling, someone had to take the fall.

There we go :smile:

Igmund is with the Empire aswell. They used Ulfric and his men to liberate Markarth from the Forsworn, then after, arrested him. Needless to say if i was in Ulfric's shoes, i would do the same thing he is doing.
One would even go as far to say that the Empire started this war... In a way. But still, the Thalmor are the common enemy between both. If peace cannot be achieved then it must be fought for.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:45 pm

How is the empire pushing hostilities? Ulfric started the rebellion

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:31 pm

How is the empire pushing hostilities? Ulfric started the rebellion

Ulfric acted under nordic law. The empire hasn't interfered with it in the past. The duel was completely legal by their standards. Sybille Stentor the court wizard in solitude will even comment on this.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:24 pm

How is the empire pushing hostilities? Ulfric started the rebellion

Ulfric acted under nordic law. The empire hasn't interfered with it in the past. The duel was completely legal by their standards.

That, and being used by the Empire to clean up Markarth with the promise of being able to worship their god, Talos, as their reward, then being completely lied too by the Empire, then arrested, his men being allowed to be tortured by the Thalmor and the Empire sitting back and doing nothing but spit on true Nords... How would that not cause one to be hostile? It's an affront to the Nordic way of life... Think about that, then go and listen to Ulfrics speech when you enter the Palace of Kings... His words are just.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:55 pm

I find it funny that that some people point that ulfric agrees to a moot after the empire is driven out, except that all the jarls are now stormcloak supporters.

Ulfric himself admits that the moot is just a formality to rubber-stamp his victory. The earlier point being that the moot system had already broken down because of imperial interference. When political systems break down or have no legitimacy, it's left to a military settlement. The imperials and imperial Nords could have recognized Ulfric's victory over Torygg and let Skyrim secede. There might still have been unrest, but probably not outright hostilities.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:45 pm

Ulfric himself admits that the moot is just a formality to rubber-stamp his victory. The earlier point being that the moot system had already broken down because of imperial interference. When political systems break down or have no legitimacy, it's left to a military settlement. The imperials and imperial Nords could have recognized Ulfric's victory over Torygg and let Skyrim secede. There might still have been unrest, but probably not outright hostilities.

Agreed.