Try Morrowind as a non-Dunmer character, and experience some real racism.

Been there and dealed with that and thats why I think the dummer deserve anything and everything they get.

I say I joined the Empire, and rid the whole of Skyrim of Stormcloak rebel scum. Now the Argonians and Dunmer of Windhelm all praise me for fighting for what was truly right in our Hearts.

Tamriel is for all races, not just nords or thalmors. "Racist" nords will feel the wrath of Sithis. I'd love to see your faces when a Wood Elf is named High King of Skyrim.

I would guess their faces would look similar to the wood elves if a Nord was ever made High King of Valenwood

Yeah, I'd love to see yours when the moot tells the "little elf" to go back where you came from. You're still fighting on behalf of Nords- the people who subjugated those other races with a giant robot. And did nothing for Valenwood when the Dominion came to call other than some covert nannying.

There are random encounters with Dunmer and redguard going to join the Stormcloaks, too.

So you want to see Ulfric turn around and conquer Cyrodiil if he wins?

I'm for the Empire, but not the Emperor and Elder Council. The Empire as an idea, as a cause, is much better than the Stormcloaks' racist "Skyrim for the Nords and no one else" movement. While the Emperor and Council (i.e., those responsible for kowtowing to the *#&$! Thalmor) are as equally bad as Ulfric, their reign won't last forever (and actually, didn't, if you follow a certain storyline). There's always hope a good leader will rise and remake the Empire into the way it should be.

I didn't really have any opinion initially, but now i feel the i'll treat the Stromcloaks the same as the Legion in New Vegas; sided with them once to see their side, and kill them from now on

By conquering the other territories again? Remember that Black Marsh and Elsweyr seceded voluntarily, and I doubt Hammerfell is going to gladly be ruled over again. It's a strange sort of ideal that puts colonialism over the Nords' isolationism and finds the former more palatable. I think people can't have a very realistic idea of what an empire means- subjugation.

Ulfric comes off as racist, but hanging around in the Palace and in Windhelm convinced me otherwise. Also, one needs to remember a few things about Dunmer culture before casting accusations. The same is true of Argonians.

A conversation occasionally comes up with Ulfric where his steward mentions unrest in the Grey Quarter. Ulfric points out that he's in the middle of a civil war and therefore has bigger problems. The Butcher incident also can be attributed to this. And look around in Windhelm, there are several Dunmer and Altmer running around without having much issue. There's a Dunmer bard singing Ulfric's praises in the inn, there's an Altmer merchant working in the merchant area (I do have some speculation that she's actually a Thalmor spy), there's a Dunmer who owns a farm and another Altmer tending horses.

Next, let's look at the culture of the Dunmer. The Dunmer are as a race enormously proud. Some of them are as egotistical as the Thalmor are (Remember the Telvanni in Morrowind?) They have a bad habit of not accepting help and placing blame on everyone else for their ills. They've always had a very cold attitude towards the Empire as a whole, and individual races get a frozen shoulder from them most of the time.

As far as the Argonians go, the Argonians aren't well liked in Skyrim to begin with. The executioner in Solitude mention's he'd like "a chance at that Jaree-Ra's scrawny neck" and to be honest, it's kind of understandable. The Argonians have as much of a reputation for duplicity as the Khajiit have, maybe even more so.

Could never bring myself to work with Caeser so I just stuck to killen em.Also never got around to working with the NCR but I didn't kill em.They seemed like decent enough folks

agree with the OP. The outlawing of Talos was a necessary evil to establish peace again (however temporary that may be). And I can't see the Stormcloaks singlehandely fighting off the Aldmeri Dominion. I quickly realized that Ulfric totally lacks any common sense and, while I haven't finished the civil war quests yet, it is quite apparent that he is an asset to the Thalmor whether he realizes that or not.

Midway through the stormcloaks questline i realized what jerks they were, playing as an argonian. Unfortunately i was too far in to change
On my next char i picked the empire instead. (they got some mighty cool armor!)

Yeah, only did it once myself. Didn't chance my opinion of them one bit. And to spite them i did with a female character. I troll'd Caesar good

Imperials wanted my head, Stormcloaks won't give me the time of day, they can both go and do a running jump....

FTR: I have done both questlines with previous characters, (both a Nord and a Wood Elf). If anyone's right, it's the Imperials. Ulfric is a dictator, if it wasn't for the fact the Imperials wanted me dead, I'd like them more.

the empire has failed, they fell pray to the thalmor's cunning when they sighned the WGC, they are as good as dead because there is no way they will be able to fight the dominion, they just aren't smart enough and while they are building their forces for some sort of defence, the thalmor is sitting in there strategy room monitoring everything.

the time for prevention tactics (such as crap anti-religeon contracts) has passed, we are now in serious damage control. What the nords need is what the empire stands for, the problem is that the empire no longer works that way and is now just a decaying apple waiting for that one glorious seed to drop into the soil and grow another mighty apple tree, I believe the stormcloaks are that apple seed. When the stormcloaks are put back in charge they open the way for a much more powerful force, not only will the empire retreat and rally their forces back in their own land (which further protects it's own people from the thalmor, thus providing a stronger point of power against the thalmor) but the nords will have a political power intent on defending skyrims right to remain nord (while this is still racist to a degree, the thalmor would ask that you bow down to them as once gods, so while the empire isn't racist, there masters are) this means that they will take action against the thalmor, in a time of war you need a war leader, and skyrim is going to go to war one way or another, and elsif sure as hell ain't ready for that.

also, I have no doubt that the stormcloak government would be able to establish a very strong alliance with the empire, because once all is said and done the only issues that the stormcloaks have with the empire are their submission to the thalmor (and lets face it, the empire don't like the thalmor any more than the stormcloaks, so this hurdle will be overcome when the empire admits that they were backed into a corner, and made some very poor moves, like agreeing to ban talos worship) and the fact that the empire is controlling skyrim, once they are kicked out and accept that skyrim doesn't belong to them I'm sure they will find themselves as great equals, as long as they respect each others borders/beliefs.

I hated the dark elves in Morrowind, aided the pro-slave freedom movement, and slughtered every damn Redoran and Telvanni who made racist comments at the would-be Nerevarine. This said, Nords are not racist, they've just that 'backyard' primitive mentality of people who cannot see past their own little porch.

Because they want to fight the Thalmor rather than bend over for them? Both Galmar and Ulfric talk about working with other nations and the real fight being with the Dominion.

Ulfric isn't tthe one telling people who they can and cannot worship. He also holds audiences with his critics, such as Ambarys.

The Civil War seems too "civil." It is hard for me to get motivated either way because it doesn't seem like anything is really wrong in Skyrim. Outside of the opening event, that is the only true tense moment I felt between Stormcloaks and Imperials.

So instead of making guerrilla actions against the Thalmor occupants, stockpiling resources and building an army to protect Skyrim, they rally against the empire-aligned Jarls and keep Tulius' legions locked in a stalemate (thus preventing the empire from regaining the necessary strength to face the Dominion again in open field). Ooh, good startegy!

Ok, Nords hate the empire for the shameful peace treaty. This doesn't change the fact the if the empire is a burden and a threat to Skyrim, the Thalmor are even a bigger enemy!

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. If the Jarl of Morthal and Whiterun can understand this, why the Stormlocaks can't? They're too busy shouting "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" to do some simple math.

A lot of the jarls supported Ulfric. Even Balgruuf wouldn't let the Empire garrison troops in Whiterun. There are no Imperial troops in that City.

Ulfric should have called for the moot before warring with his fellow jarls. Instead of calling for a moot, Ulfric says this when you first come across him in Windhelm:


That is not the way to become the legitimate king of Skyrim. He should have called for a moot.

The WGC is a truce in name only. The reality is it is a surrender. The empire gave the Thalmor everything they asked for, and that is the definition of loser. The WGC makes the Thalmor stronger every day it is in effect. It allows the thalmor to travel freely in skyrim (and presumably cyrodiil and high rock), it allows them to buy off the Jarls (even Balgruuf took the chests of gold) and the wealth class, and it allows the Thalmor to demand Tullius turn over any prisoner they want - to be tortured into confession. The WGC does not allow the empire to rebuild so much as it allows the Thalmor to infiltrate and dominate. So therefore the WGC is not a path to a stronger empire. It is a path to further weakening of the empire and ascendance of Thalmor.

They already attempted to call the moot. The empire interrupted it.

It won't convene now until the war is over.

Moots for contesting leadership can only be called upon the death of the high king. Whether by natural causes, or via the duel.

But the thrall of my enemy is my enemy.