Yes but

Also note that several elves have been quite succesfull in the city. One of the Dunmer says that the only way they will earn the respect of the Nords os through hard work. I'm more concerned with the cities attitude towards Argonians(and khajiit, but everyone keeps them out).

When I think about it there is one thing about this racism discussion I find peculiar: The Dunmer were extremely racist and slavers to boot in Morrowind and they are loved for it, but the moment the Nords are pro-Nord they are the bad guys?

I sided with the empire because Ulfric himself. How many people have died to try (and fail) to put him on the throne . Ulfric imo is an unfit ruler and his leadership would lead the world of men into an deep gold skined, pointy eared hell!

But I do not buy into this racism thing , their is hardly any evidence supporting it. Sure the argonians can't enter the city but would you leave argonians and dunmer in an enclosed space together?

Plus the dunmer who complain are the dead beat drunks who think the world should be handed to them on a silver plate. It isn't the nords who segregate the dark elves, they have always done a good job of that on their own and still do. Yes you see idiotic, drunken, racist, Nordic hypocrites like that one guy, but not all stormcloaks share his opinion.

To label all stormcloacks as racist is wrong. The fight for what they believe in, against oppression and elven misrule. If the circumstances where different I wouldn't find them in the wrong.

I blame Ulfric for this bloody war and Titus ii for the circumstances that created war.
I don't believe the empire should have agreed to the WGC. The elves had not won anything and where just as battered as the empire. I side with Hammerfell NO WGC!! Imo it was very stupid of Titus to sign it, he must have seen the collapse of the empire to come out of it. Come on, surrender parts of Hammerfell? The abolishment of Talos worship? Free reign of Thalmor enforcers? WTF!?!?

That THE most stupid, one sided peace treaty I have ever heard of! By getting the empire to agree the Dominion are victorious. Plus the empire has to pay loyalties to the people that FAILED to conquer them. That's why the end on the DB quest line will forever be one of the greatest moments I'll have playing TES.
Titus should been hung for signing that stupid agreement. The Dominion could not continue and we all know that in the long run the nations of men would recover quicker, so WHY, WHY the WGC?!?!?

Stormcloak then imperial and back to stormcloak. The imperial's have no backbone.

Oh, I choose the empire because with the situation the nations of men are in a united empire is the best thing....for now anyway.

Why bother about racism? There is a war going on and war is ruled by chaos. People will always say negative things in war times. If what they say is racist, hateful, religious or something else does not matter when both sides aim to kill each other.

Do not justify killing people because they are racist. It is as bad for a motive as racism is.

There has been no "united empire" for many years. It does not exist.

You have me their. But my point was that the WGC should have never beeb sign.
And a bunch of disorganised nation that cripple the selves with war will not stand a chance against a dominion back to full strength.

I'm confused.

@Amazon Queen

Actually, what I said was
@svann

My point is which path will make the empire and skyrim stronger and which path makes the thalmor stronger?
1. Agree to the empire's ban on talos worship. Allow the thalmor to remain in skyrim buying off the jarls and the wealth class, and gaining intel on skyrim's strengths.
2. Refuse to go along with the empire's WGC agreement. Fight for the right to build skyrim stronger.

There are a few things the Empire can do to bring Skyrim and Hammerfell back.

For Hammerfell
I do not believe any amount of promises to "Not bail on you again." will amount to much.Despite the Cyrodils diplomatic abillitys.
If the job of Emporer ever opens up *wink* do not put another Cyrodil on the throne put the Most Successful Redguard General on the throne.It would go a long way to restoring trust between Hammerfell and the Empire.

For Skyrim
Tear up the WGC.
Yes that will cause problems with the Thalmor but guess what you are going to have problems anyway.
Return the favor and get a little payback for the Blades by putting the Imperial headsmen to good use for once.
Stuff a note That reads "The Elfin treaty is null and void.Come at me bro" in Elenwen's mouth and send it to Summerset.

Will they?Dunno but it sure would be nice if they did.

Ask yourself, did you try to move your character during your first time through Helgen?

Did you try to see if you can walk somewhere or do something? Did you press W, A, S & D before the game told you about it?? Did you???

If so, and most players likely will have, it is what is called the survival instinct. You do not wish to be trapped, instead you want to be free!

For me did this very first experience svck, but I did not blame it on the Imperials. They caught me, I do not know how, but they must have been good. Or I must have been dumb or bad. Whichever. When they ran through the list and could not find my name on it, but still moved me to the block did I still note hate the Imperials. I only thought "Stupid soldier, does not get paid to think." ...

So I ran when I saw my chance, fetched the first loot, all of it (hehe), and saw to it that I get out. I was free. I started to figure out what got me into this and the dialogue suggested to have a face to face word with some Imperial. Good idea! Either I kill him or I join him. Turned out they know mercy...

I felt differently and I did blame it on the Imperials, not the rank and file soldiers who were just following orders, but I blamed that female captain of the guard and I blamed the Empire as a governing body for its failures.

meh, the nords are racist, but honestly not a lot of them, they just don't trust elves for the most part, and who can blame them, the elves have done some pretty horrific things to man in the past, and continue to do so.

not to mention most stormcloaks aren't racist, they are just WARY, it's like in world war II (and no this isn't a direct comparison) the allies wouldn't just TRUST a nazi who said they wanted to switch sides without some sort of evidence, the same is true of the stormcloaks, most elves (and the cat people) are cunning and deceptive by nature, much the same way that dragons are dominating by nature, it can be overcome (and without all that 1000 year meditation) but when you first meet them it's usually best to assume they are as they are, and not as they should be.

also, I can be trusted, I know this, they do not. < a big wise [censored] on top of a mountain told me that, and it still holds true.

This man knows what's up. I agree %100, and I help hate on the Dunmer, not just because I'm currently an Argonian or an Altmer, but because the Dunmer are actually the only race that I hate and will never play. Also, their whining annoys me. I've been to the Gray Quarter and it isn't half bad. If I were Ulfric, I would've had them thrown off the front gate bridge a long time ago.

I was pro stormcloak until learning that the empire didn't just roll right over without a real fight and that without the white gold concordat casualties on both sides would have been a lot worse. Especially for the humans non Altmer.

i don't really have an "opinion" on it, i just played both sides on two chars, it's just a video game, they were both fun and that's that

My opinion changed because the civil war quest svckED. There was virtually no dialogue, challenge, or story. It was just an alternation between capturing forts and cities. Then you gain a new rank 10 minutes later and move on.

I think both sides are horrible, but I sympathize with the wish for sovereignty. However, you have no input into the war, which svcks.

I the only true poltical side im part of is that im very anti-dominion. While both the Stormcloaks and the Imperials hate the thalmor the imperials are thinking long term on how to rebuild and regain their military and social/economical streangth in order to begin to resist the Dominion wheras the Stormcloaks go all " Death or Glory" and would be annihilated by the Dominion. I have done all sides. Talked to all sorts of people on what they think. Had long discussions from all the officers on both sides and it seems the only chance they have at beating the Dominion would be to gain their strength not fight a huge war just cause on large [censored] head wants to sit on the throne without going throught a moot.

A little bonus from the empire is the added rewards.. And heavy armor for my Orc char

The Empire would probably sit idly by until the Thalmor came with gathered resources, broke the treaty, and crumbled the Empire. Stormcloaks actually want to do something about this, which is why I sided with them. Sure the Empire is more powerful but they aren't going to do anything about this.

Which is somewhat ironic, since the Empire torched all its diplomatic bridges with the signing of the WGC and will have a hell of a time getting allies (if it even can anymore), while the Stormcloaks, who don't have any such baggage, could probably form an alliance with High Rock and Hammerfell and start kicking Thalmor asses.

Even without such an alliance I doubt they would get annihilated, since from what I've read the Thalmor aren't as strong as some folks think. I'm not sure where they're getting it from, but somehow the fact that both sides' armies were annihilated in the battle for the Imperial City is being taken to mean 'the Empire has no troops left while the Thalmor have plenty', which completely ignores the fact that said additional Thalmor troops got slaughtered in, and the remainder subsequently tossed out of, Hammerfell.