Big disappointment

Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:13 am

I think you are all upset over the capabilities not existing that did before. Now, don't you think Bethesda spent some time perusing through various forums (and theirs) gathering data on how people exploited their game? In Morrowind, you had the levitate potion or spell that went bye-bye in Oblivion. Why? Could it be because everyone used it to fly instead of walk or use fast transportation? Not to mention the various ways people abused trainers to level up. I know I did it. What about the chameleon enchantment? It was there in Oblivion and gone in Skyrim. Could it be because all one had to do was enchant clothing articles with 20% - 25% chameleon to achieve 100% and be essentially invisible? You don't think that looked at all of that?

I like that the spells are standardized -- not to mention the shouts. The shouts are fun.
I like that that it's not necessary to learn alchemy if you focus on enchanting and restoration. You don't have to lug around a ton of potions with you if don't want to. But, I'm sure some of you do and are potion-holics. Always downing a potion in the middle of a fight instead of trying to manage your resources.
I like that you never have to delve far into the main quest and can spend hours doing guild quests and side quests.
I like that you control when dragons appear in the game. You never have to visit Whiterun.
You don't have to start the civil war. You can put off the legion and stormcloaks for a long time.

I don't like that the best armors -- appearance wise -- are awarded to you. I'd like to craft my own thief's guild armor and enchant it to fit my style. I'd like to be able to craft better looking leather armor. But, that won't happen.

This game is not as awful as you "die-hards" say it is. Bethesda created a huge open world that looks way better than Morrowind or Oblivion. It could be you're tired of seeing the same old enemies and want to know where your Minatour is or something? I don't miss them. They don't have to do it all in the base game. They have tons of room for DLC material. So, give it time. Not everyone playing wants your ideal "immersion". Many people just want to play the game and not spend tons of hours collecting ingredients, mining for ore, or walking everywhere.


No, because most of what you say is sheer nonsense.
This isnt an MMO, nor is it halo.

Levitation was taken out due to closed cells for cities. It had nothing to do with 'cheating' as that is a nonsensical way to look at the wonderful freedom levitation provided. There is no set path to a goal in Morrowind, by design, this is not a linear shoot-em-up.

All these things you mention never got adressed in patches because all of them were intentional design decisions.
100% magicka reduction in Skyrim is also here to stay, because the game is designed for it.

Calling an optional feature in a single-player game an exploit or cheat is remarkably unimaginitive and I will never understand the need to be boxed in with all these rules, regulations and laws.

The loss of spellmaking is horrible, just awful.
A TES game traditionally has the best magic out there, and Skyrim fails to deliver on that.
Other games by other companies have better magic, and its a crying shame.
Apart from all the sorely missed effects such as waterwalk, cure disease, open lock, the lowest tier spells become obsolete too fast and the master ones
never become useful.
I hate having to recast my magelight every minute, I want the spellmaker so I can edit its duration.
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Justin
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:03 pm

I like that you never have to delve far into the main quest and can spend hours doing guild quests and side quests.

Thats a great thing about Skyrim, the main quest is not urgent, there are gaps in between where npcs have to arrange something and so on, so it feels natural to go off and do your own thing.
In Oblivion with daedra gates popping up everywhere it felt silly helping npcs with minor problems because you felt you were always on the clock and just wasting time. Skyrim gives you more space to breathe first which I like.
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Roddy
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:27 pm

No, because most of what you say is sheer nonsense.
This isnt an MMO, nor is it halo.

Levitation was taken out due to closed cells for cities. It had nothing to do with 'cheating' as that is a nonsensical way to look at the wonderful freedom levitation provided. There is no set path to a goal in Morrowind, by design, this is not a linear shoot-em-up.

All these things you mention never got adressed in patches because all of them were intentional design decisions.
100% magicka reduction in Skyrim is also here to stay, because the game is designed for it.

Calling an optional feature in a single-player game an exploit or cheat is remarkably unimaginitive and I will never understand the need to be boxed in with all these rules, regulations and laws.

The loss of spellmaking is horrible, just awful.
A TES game traditionally has the best magic out there, and Skyrim fails to deliver on that.
Other games by other companies have better magic, and its a crying shame.
Apart from all the sorely missed effects such as waterwalk, cure disease, open lock, the lowest tier spells become obsolete too fast and the master ones
never become useful.
I hate having to recast my magelight every minute, I want the spellmaker so I can edit its duration.
Instant decline :brokencomputer: :brokencomputer:
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Victor Oropeza
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:24 pm

Instant decline :brokencomputer: :brokencomputer:

Is there any point or hidden message Im failing to see?
Why reply if its only going to be two words that mean nothing?
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James Shaw
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:00 am

Is there any point or hidden message Im failing to see?
Why reply if its only going to be two words that mean nothing?
Did you actually read the quote I edited.
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Felix Walde
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:36 am

I think you are all upset over the capabilities not existing that did before. Now, don't you think Bethesda spent some time perusing through various forums (and theirs) gathering data on how people exploited their game? In Morrowind, you had the levitate potion or spell that went bye-bye in Oblivion. Why? Could it be because everyone used it to fly instead of walk or use fast transportation? Not to mention the various ways people abused trainers to level up. I know I did it. What about the chameleon enchantment? It was there in Oblivion and gone in Skyrim. Could it be because all one had to do was enchant clothing articles with 20% - 25% chameleon to achieve 100% and be essentially invisible? You don't think that looked at all of that?

I like that the spells are standardized -- not to mention the shouts. The shouts are fun.
I like that that it's not necessary to learn alchemy if you focus on enchanting and restoration. You don't have to lug around a ton of potions with you if don't want to. But, I'm sure some of you do and are potion-holics. Always downing a potion in the middle of a fight instead of trying to manage your resources.
I like that you never have to delve far into the main quest and can spend hours doing guild quests and side quests.
I like that you control when dragons appear in the game. You never have to visit Whiterun.
You don't have to start the civil war. You can put off the legion and stormcloaks for a long time.

I don't like that the best armors -- appearance wise -- are awarded to you. I'd like to craft my own thief's guild armor and enchant it to fit my style. I'd like to be able to craft better looking leather armor. But, that won't happen.

This game is not as awful as you "die-hards" say it is. Bethesda created a huge open world that looks way better than Morrowind or Oblivion. It could be you're tired of seeing the same old enemies and want to know where your Minatour is or something? I don't miss them. They don't have to do it all in the base game. They have tons of room for DLC material. So, give it time. Not everyone playing wants your ideal "immersion". Many people just want to play the game and not spend tons of hours collecting ingredients, mining for ore, or walking everywhere.

This man deserves a beer. :foodndrink:

Taking this as a jumping off point, I would like to offer a critique: If someone wants to break the balance of the game to gain power I do not think that said option should simply be removed. Nor should it be consequence free. If it is possible for you to enchant armor to 100% invisibility... That should be something requiring 40+ manhours to do. If it is easy to do, there should be enemies running around with the same equipment in their inventory. If it is difficult to do, you should be recognized for better or worse for your accomplishment.

Simply removing something because it hurts balance is lazy. Working around it so that it is still there but it is significantly harder to gain, or will have some game-changing effect on how you play, that is what makes something a masterpiece.

I'll keep using the 100% invisibility thing you mentioned above, because I like that as an example: To get this, you should need some significant power. If your going to be 100% invisible, you should need the help of some powerful forces, or maybe you will suffer some sort of personal effect. If your invisible most of the time, your skin would bleach out if you used it too much, your allowing all light to pass through you. What does that do to YOU? I mean taken to an extreme you could start experiencing vampire like symptoms when your in sunlight and your visible. Or it is more: "Makes people around you not percieve you" then maybe you get that enchantment that happened to the Grey Fox in Oblivion: People just stop acknowledging you exist.

Balancing difficulty with reward would be something that could satisfy both worlds: Casual gamers would be happy because hardcoe gamers are happy. hardcoe gamers would be happy because there was more challange in the game. Min-maxers would be happy because you could actually GET those game breaking items or enchantments.


I've said time and again, Beth experiments in every new game they make to see what they can get away with and with what works. Skyrim was a great departure from their other titles. They have logged the results of their experiment. I hope they take this game and combine it with older titles to make something great in the future. I do not think they have to sacrifice hardcoe gameplay/hardcoe mechanics to the gods of compromise in order to appeal to Casual gamers.


On and on a side note: this whole post is opinions, and here is one of mine: Anyone who says Oblivion was greater than skyrim...no. I am willing to accept Oblivion modded was as good as vanilla skyrim, but when Modded skyrim comes around, it has the potential to be on par with Morrowind.
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James Baldwin
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:59 am

I don’t criticise games easily but this is the worst of the series.

I disagree. It's not nearly as crappy as Oblivion. If FO3 is Oblivion with guns, Skyrim is Oblivion 2.

Remember all the talk about reinvention? You might not, it was some years ago. After Oblivion they forgot about it, have used the same engine, made the same mistakes over and over again. World is tiny, no realism whatsoever, timescale is screwed up, GPS shows you everything, POI's even. Fast travel. Immortal NPCs. Maxed out hand holding. It's exactly like playing Oblivion, with an added boss-enemy: dragon, some crafting, and added shouts. Feels like a classy community mod for Oblivion. But, there's hardly a mod out there that removes so many elements. Absolutely no choice in character creation, only race and six. No attributes, even less skills. All your characters are identical. Only after you spend many, many game hours into them you can feel the difference.

If you look at the sale numbers and people around talking about it, you must admit TES5 to be a great game.

Ask a TES veteran who is waiting for a Daggerfall 2 or Morrowind 2, they say it stinks. Simplified game for the masses. I was a dumb teen when I started playing TES, and Daggerfall was at times overwhelming. I like to think I've become older and wiser during the years, but seems to me Bethesda thinks I've become younger and dumber.
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Chloe Botham
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:07 am

Did you actually read the quote I edited.

Yes, and I still fail to see the point.

Spellmaking, the wonderful freedom it provided, is the reason we have a TES series in the first place.
Without it, Arena is a slightly above mediocre dungeon crawler, and without it there never would have been a Daggerfall, let alone Skyrim.

The sheer freedom spellmaking gave you, before it was severly gimped in Oblivion, was unheard of.
I could literally affect any and all stats, dispositions, I had great control over my character, the world and the interactions between.
Anything from base stats, flee or alarm rating, disposition, awareness, all open to do with as I please, and cast in the manner I see fit. Area, duration, potency, target or self.
In Morrowind I could for instance permanently make peaceful NPC's out of most hostile ones, by first calming them and then getting their disposition to 100.
I could also permanently cripple an NPC by reducing its strength to zero and having it glued to the spot.
Anything.
That is why Daggerfall and Morrowind are worlds, and Oblivion and Skyrim mere games.
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Dj Matty P
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:39 am

But it does have it so what's your point ? We should play text games in this time and age ?
Thank you for proving my point (and much more)! ^_^
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XPidgex Jefferson
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:01 pm

Yes, and I still fail to see the point.

Spellmaking, the wonderful freedom it provided, is the reason we have a TES series in the first place.
Without it, Arena is a slightly above mediocre dungeon crawler, and without it there never would have been a Daggerfall, let alone Skyrim.

The sheer freedom spellmaking gave you, before it was severly gimped in Oblivion, was unheard of.
I could literally affect any and all stats, dispositions, I had great control over my character, the world and the interactions between.
Anything from base stats, flee or alarm rating, disposition, awareness, all open to do with as I please, and cast in the manner I see fit. Area, duration, potency, target or self.
I could for instance permanently make peaceful NPC's out of most hostile ones, by first calming them and then getting their disposition to 100.
I could also permanently cripple an NPC by reducing its strength to zero and having it glued to the spot.
Anything.
That is Daggerfall and Morrowind are worlds, and Oblivion and Skyrim mere games.
Bro, I only used spellmaking to make nuke spells and make myself a god in Morrowind. Well, I did have choices and no one was there to complain about "balance"... right?
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Alexander Horton
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:28 pm

Bro, I only used spellmaking to make nuke spells and make myself a god in Morrowind. Well, I did have choices and no one was there to complain about "balance"... right?

Exactly.
But now that choice you had, and all the choices I and many enjoyed are gone.
Traded in for a poorly balanced, poorly thought out and very summier magic system.
Dragon Age 1 has better magic by far.
Spells do not become obsolete, branching paths ensure unique characters, two spells may combine to produce a tertiary effect, a lot more unique and varied spells.
For a TES game, the magic is the biggest let-down of the entire series.
Bigger than the level scaling in Oblivion.
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Steven Nicholson
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:17 pm

I haven't played Morrowind or Oblivion so I have no comparison for skyrim, maybe Baldurs Gate series, but I was overwhelmed by the world of skyrim and I thought that this was the best game ever made. but now the honeymoon is over and as the game is no doubt beautiful it lacks lot's of depth. I haven't even searched every corner of Skyrim yet but I don't know if I even want to. I don't enjoy running around doing the same quest all over again. Fetch this, go kill that.


There are lot's of factions in the game, like the Forsworn (who I as a Breton would have liked to join and kick the living crap out of those Markarthians) but all they do is automatically think you're an enemy and your only choice is to kill them (even though I released their King from the prison). I still have high hopes for the Stormcloak rebellion.

Like someone mentioned before the conversations are always the same, there are no relationships to begin with. I would have expected to be able to communicate with people more and build relationships and the world to react on my actions and have lots of options that would affect the outcome of the game. That's what I loved at Baldurs Gate 2. The conversations and relationships between companions were amazing and how they reacted to characters actions. Now I roam around Skyrim and bash thugs who are sent after me if I do something unpleasant. Maybe I have just played too much in short period of time and need a little cool down. But all and all, basically an awesome game, but the multiple little disappointments really eat out the experience.
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Shaylee Shaw
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:31 am

That is why Daggerfall and Morrowind are worlds, and Oblivion and Skyrim mere games.
I'm always amazed how you put this whole difficult discussion into a single, spot-on sentence. This is exactly what I feel. :thumbsup:
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Richus Dude
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:02 am

That is why Daggerfall and Morrowind are worlds, and Oblivion and Skyrim mere games.
QFT
Eh, I really hope that Bethesda made Oblivion and Skyrim just to make enough money so they can eventually make a truly legendary gameworld like TES used to be. :(
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Flesh Tunnel
 
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