We demand dwemer, not ruins, but the beardy disappearing tri

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:39 pm


Not strictly speaking, There is a dragon king in Akavir and there was one in Redguard

Oh yeah! I forgot about the tiger-dragon as he's called. Not all dragons were dead, they just became extremely rare. That dragon is a bit of an exception though, as he started out as a mortal, but somehow transformed into one.
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Sara Johanna Scenariste
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:08 am

The Dwemer are in another plane of existance so unless you find an Elder Scroll and rewrite history with it, I don't see it happening. I'd rather have more Dwemer ruins in DLC's but that's up to Beth.
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kitten maciver
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:54 pm

The Dwemer are in another plane of existance so unless you find an Elder Scroll and rewrite history with it, I don't see it happening. I'd rather have more Dwemer ruins in DLC's but that's up to Beth.

Now THAT is a possibility that could work, but then we'd have to get into anothr argument about the metaphysics of an elder scroll and how it works, and I don't think any of us are up for that. Regardless, the dwemer remain mysterious for a reason, so I still don't think they should come back.
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RAww DInsaww
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:00 pm

Rephrase: YOU demand dwemer.

Cheers

QFT.

The OP has graciously decided he speaks for me, too. Trouble is, he doesn't
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Tanya Parra
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:24 pm

Im not talking about any scholar's guild article.
Im talking about actual developers posting on this actual forum (well, a previous iteration) what actually happened to the Dwemer, namely they were absorbed into Numidium.

Edit: Here is the actual quote:
"
MK, on 20 June 2006 - 05:54 AM, said:
"Kagrenac was devoted to his people, and the Dwarves, despite what you may have read, were a pious lot-he would not have sacrificed so many of their golden souls to create Anumidum's metal body if it were all in the name of grand theater. Kagrenac had even built the tools needed to construct a Mantella, the Crux of Transcendence."

Okay. So now everyone can stop posting about where the Dwarves went. I TOLD YOU EIGHTY YEARS AGO.

Filthy with it, I am."
Kagrenac sacrificed *some* of their souls, not all of them. That is clear in the wording 'so many of' and later in the text (which itself is just the viewpoint of one Xal, an in-character writing, not a dev explain anything canon):

"the Doom of the Dwarves marched upon the Mountain and they were removed from this world."

Clearly a separate event.

Full text:
http://www.imperial-library.info/book/export/html/2216

"[indent]
Xal, a Human Maruhkati, Port Telvanis:
Ah. I will tell you the truth, because you will believe none of it. The Brass God is Anumidum, the Prime Gestalt. He is also called the divine skin. He was meant to be used many times by our kind to transcend the Gray Maybe.
The first to see him was the Shop Foremer, Kagrenac of Vvardenfell, the wisest of the tonal architects [Mechanists - MN] Do not think as others do that Kagrenac created the Anumidum for petty motivations, such as a refutation of the gods. Kagrenac was devoted to his people, and the Dwarves, despite what you may have read, were a pious lot-he would not have sacrificed so many of their golden souls to create Anumidum's metal body if it were all in the name of grand theater. Kagrenac had even built the tools needed to construct a Mantella, the Crux of Transcendence. But, by then, and for a long time coming, the Doom of the Dwarves marched upon the Mountain and they were removed from this world.
The second to see the Brass God was the Enantiomorph. You may know them individually as Zurin Arctus and Talos. The Oversoul was known to the world as Tiber Septim They gave birth to their Mantella, this time an embodiment of the healing of the Man/Mer schism, and, with it, Anumidum Walked. But, by then, and for a long time coming, One betrayed the Other, and the world shuddered as they split, and the Anumidum went berserk and created an Empire of Evil to house the malignant half of its soul.
And what of the Warp in the West, where it is said six Anumiduma were seen in six different places at once, each one carving out a different mortal's destiny? We could see that High Rock is unified no more, that the flags of Nova Orsinium are real, that the Sload Priests talk to their new God of Worms, and none of them serve the sick heir of the Septim line; we could see all this and know that it is true. This Warp is but a realization of the trap that is the Gray Maybe, and that champion of release, the Brass God, has but reminded us again what the failure of his misuse means in the Arena Mundus."[/indent]
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Scarlet Devil
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:34 pm

Now THAT is a possibility that could work, but then we'd have to get into anothr argument about the metaphysics of an elder scroll and how it works, and I don't think any of us are up for that. Regardless, the dwemer remain mysterious for a reason, so I still don't think they should come back.

Agree with this ... and

... do we really need them coming back and refurbishing more of those damned Dwemer Centurions? My character has decided they are a load to deal with and would rather not see more of them walking around. :wink:
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Pumpkin
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:12 am

The dwemer are nothing but soul skin of a metaphysical brass god, ash, ghosts and just a bloated corprus hutt slowly going demented.
And I for one do not wish for them to return. For they were alien, evil and in most cases isolationist scientists with no morales at all.

They enslaved the falmer, corrupted them into goblin-like creatures, tortured other races recklessly to further their aims of returning to the first gradient.
If they were ever brought back to Nirn by some mysterious circumstance, then I hope Dumac the Dwarf-King is there to hopefully make amends with those who were mistreated, so long ago.
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Laura Mclean
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:29 pm

The Dwemer are a mystery, like socks.

I see what you did there..

But onto the point, I haven't played Morrowing, Daggerfall or Arena, or read much of the books lying around, but judging from what I've read in this forum, if they were all absorbed into Numidium, couldn't like, Numidium be brought to Skyrim by Calcemo or someone (kind of like SPOILER: the Nightmother in Dark Brotherhood) and then the Dwarves come out of it and back to life?
Or maybe it could use an Elder Scroll like The Terror of Death said and we could either go back into Dwarven times, or it could be like that http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Wooden_Mask ?
I don't know, I would like to see more of the Dwarves, but I also wouldn't like to ruin all the mystery, although considering Bethesda has made all the Elder Scrolls (Unlike Fallout), I trust that they can keep the lore.
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Ashley Hill
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:29 pm

Weeeeeell, the lore states that the dwemer disappeared, and even though there are dwemer ghosts in certain ruins in Morrowind, there's no definitive evidence that states that they are simply dead. And even if they are dead, it just means that they are in a different plane of existence. Nirn was stated to be just another plane of Oblivion,
Spoiler
Sovngarde seems to also be another plane of Oblivion,
so there's no reason why the dwemer can't either return or be resurrected. Hey, it worked for the dragons, why not the dwemer?

I recently thought that a really interesting DLC could feature Jyggalag returning to prominence, enslaving or aligning with the dwemer (wherever in existence they may be) and tasking them to conquer Tamriel in the name or order. Starting from the North, of course. He's real orderly like that. :)
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Greg Swan
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:21 pm

I see what you did there..

But onto the point, I haven't played Morrowing, Daggerfall or Arena, or read much of the books lying around, but judging from what I've read in this forum, if they were all absorbed into Numidium, couldn't like, Numidium be brought to Skyrim by Calcemo or someone (kind of like SPOILER: the Nightmother in Dark Brotherhood) and then the Dwarves come out of it and back to life?
Or maybe it could use an Elder Scroll like The Terror of Death said and we could either go back into Dwarven times, or it could be like that http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Wooden_Mask ?
I don't know, I would like to see more of the Dwarves, but I also wouldn't like to ruin all the mystery, although considering Bethesda has made all the Elder Scrolls (Unlike Fallout), I trust that they can keep the lore.
The Numidium proved very effective in bringing down the mighty http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aldmeri_Dominion and conquering http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tamriel_%28continent%29 in http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Second_Era#2E_896. The official records tell a story wherein after defeating all his enemies, Tiber Septim used the Numidium to destroy the neutral royal families of Tamriel so that he could enthrone persons he knew to be loyal. The http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Underking, another Shezarrine who was confused for Zurin Arctus due to their shared soul, disagreed with this use of the Numidium, and tried to reclaim the Mantella. However, the process devastated both Numidium and the Underking. The heart they shared was blown into http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aetherius. Pieces of the Numidium were scattered throughout Tamriel.

-UESP
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Ebony Lawson
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:37 am

I think a new previously hidden dwemer city should be found that contains some of there work that might hint at where they went/how they disappeared would be appropriate.
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Rachel Cafferty
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:04 am

Rephrase: YOU demand dwemer.

Cheers

This.

I rather have them stay a mystery.
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Quick Draw
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:37 pm

Them re-appearing altogether would ruin the whole mystery about them. I don't mind a few Dwemer ghosts and that one immortal Dwarf in Morrowind, but the whole race returning? No thanks. Although I would like to learn more about their war with the Falmer.

Besides, Dwemer live on in their amazing technology that still walk their cities.
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emily grieve
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:07 pm

This was after Morrowind mind, about a decade ago.
The quote itself got buried under several forum changes and purges.
There are still people on this forum however who have that quote, and you can always go ask on the lore forum.
I doubt they mind, they explain these things about once a month.

You can also do some digging on the Imperial Library yourself.

I was around at that time as well, just because someone says something does not make it true.
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~Amy~
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:40 am

Weeeeeell, the lore states that the dwemer disappeared, and even though there are dwemer ghosts in certain ruins in Morrowind, there's no definitive evidence that states that they are simply dead. And even if they are dead, it just means that they are in a different plane of existence. Nirn was stated to be just another plane of Oblivion,
Spoiler
Sovngarde seems to also be another plane of Oblivion,
so there's no reason why the dwemer can't either return or be resurrected. Hey, it worked for the dragons, why not the dwemer?

I recently thought that a really interesting DLC could feature Jyggalag returning to prominence, enslaving or aligning with the dwemer (wherever in existence they may be) and tasking them to conquer Tamriel in the name or order. Starting from the North, of course. He's real orderly like that. :smile:
Only time Jyggalag appears is when it's at the end of an Era and I have a feeling the 4th era still has some time left to it at least until the Medes are all gone.
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Bellismydesi
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:53 am

well during a certain quest in the rift some bandits mention how some of the animunculi appear to be waiting for something and one of them suggests it could be the return of the dwemer. and lets be honest after two thousand + years there ruins are finally showing signs of decay broken steam pipes collapsed tunnels generators and pumps that have went thousands of years without proper maintenance and lets not forget the "excavators" and "adventurers" looting there cities and destroying there guardians and even melting down there bowls pans and even animunculi into ingots. if the dwemer really aren't dead and intend on returning then they better do it quickly otherwise there wont be anything for them to go back to.
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Kate Schofield
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:15 pm

im merely explaining why the developers made the dwemer a mystery and why they havent put them in any game directly. generally the point of mysteries is to be mysterious, wouldnt you agree? im not saying you dont have a valid reason for wanting to see them, im saying the devs have a valid reason for not letting you see them.

the whole appeal of a dwemer ruin is that it is otherworldly and alien, a level of technology beyond tamriels understanding and ours. by keeping the nature and source of that technology a secret, beth can make any kind of numidiums and electro lizards they want. every time you see something new or see some strange structure to gears and pipes and whatever, it tickles your brain and makes you wonder how they did that and what its for. revealing the dwemer and their secrets would alter the entire atmosphere of a ruin to a generic steampunk land.

dragons were not in past TES games because beth couldnt implement them properly, not because theyre was any intended mystery to them. they are big flying lizards that are tied to akatosh and alduin. thats it. they arent meant to be mysterious, they are meant to be epic and intimidating, which couldnt be adequately done in past games.

was it not once that how birds flew a mystery and why the sun rose each day, mysteries are fine but their comes a time generally when they are no longer mysteries and new mysteries come to the fore. The dwemer disapperance has gone on for long enough and they are ripe for a return.

Did the cliffracers not have something to do with dragons not being in other parts of tamriel, and the dragons are a mystery in this game regardless of what you say, hence why the npc's are confused by their return, considering them extinct, except a few.

And as you state they could not implement dragons previously, could it be that they do not have the stories inplace by which they re-introduce the dwemer.

Slaves to lore are fanatics nothing more.
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Lizs
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:53 pm

This.

I rather have them stay a mystery.

simple humour is wasted in a provocative statement, regardless of if I or we demanded them it would make little difference to the developers, and did the beardy comment not lead you to think a little tongue in cheek???
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Nikki Morse
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:22 am

Weeeeeell, the lore states that the dwemer disappeared, and even though there are dwemer ghosts in certain ruins in Morrowind, there's no definitive evidence that states that they are simply dead. And even if they are dead, it just means that they are in a different plane of existence. Nirn was stated to be just another plane of Oblivion,
Spoiler
Sovngarde seems to also be another plane of Oblivion,
so there's no reason why the dwemer can't either return or be resurrected. Hey, it worked for the dragons, why not the dwemer?

I recently thought that a really interesting DLC could feature Jyggalag returning to prominence, enslaving or aligning with the dwemer (wherever in existence they may be) and tasking them to conquer Tamriel in the name or order. Starting from the North, of course. He's real orderly like that. :)

Nirn being a plane of oblivion was propaganda by Mankar Camoran. One of the major splits between Aedra and Daedra was the fact that they did NOT help create mundus, the mortal realm, home of the planet nirn. This is why the gods' physical forms are all either dead or became mortal and are the ancestors of humans and elves, while daedra are still immortal, and like toy with the world of mortals: A world they didn't create. Also, the other schism between aedra and daedra is the fact that aedra are closer to anu (order and stagnancy) while daedra are closer to padhome (chaos and change). Because of this, daedra can't create anything out of thin air like the aedra can. They can only change what already exists. While the aedra can create things put of thin air, but they lack the creativity the daedra have. My point is, Nirn is NOT a plane of oblivion. I just wanted to clear that up. Back on topic:

I doubt the Dwemer, if they returned, would ever work for the daedra. The dunmer hated the dwemer because they were blasphemous and spurned the gods, and didn't follow any religion ordinary people could understand. Due to the natures, they definitely wouldn't work for a god who represents order.
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Spencey!
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:43 pm

Slaves to lore are fanatics nothing more.
i would probably fall under your definition but there is lore supporting that the dwemer may not be dead. at the least they only lost there physical bodies. and at most they transported themselves to the outer realms for reasons yet to be known.
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michael flanigan
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Only time Jyggalag appears is when it's at the end of an Era and I have a feeling the 4th era still has some time left to it at least until the Medes are all gone.

That may not necessarily be true anymore. Jyggalag was bound to that cycle when he was still cursed with madness and transformed into Sheogorath. When Sheogorath broke the cycle, separated himself from Jyggalag as a stand-alone daedric prince, Jyggalag himself stated that he was free. He basically said, "Allright, allright, fine, keep the Shivering Isles, this place is too crazy for me anyway. Ima go find my own crib to crash at, yo." I might have paraphrased a bit, but he's saying that he's free to either find or create his own plane of Oblivion. Any rules that were connected to the curse of madness do not apply anymore. He could come back tomorrow, in a thousand years, or never. But wouldn't it be awesome if he came back and used the dwemer to try to conquer Tamriel and use Nirn as his new base of operations?
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Flesh Tunnel
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:12 pm

i would probably fall under your definition but there is lore supporting that the dwemer may not be dead. at the least they only lost there physical bodies. and at most they transported themselves to the outer realms for reasons yet to be known.

The point of that was that some will argue about nothing being able to change because this lore or that lore says it can't which is nonsense, especially when said lore states they disappeared.
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joannARRGH
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:14 pm

Throw a mysterious, extremely well-written questline involving the Dwemer in as DLC.. doesn't have to mean it involves them living in physical form.. unless it's maybe a single Dwemer or a very small colony that have somehow lived on... and that [censored] will sell like hot cakes.

Note the extremely well-written part though. I'm talking like suuuuuuuuuper mysterious, intriguing, and rewarding. Not just OMG NEW RUINS CHECK IT OUT KEWL NEW ARMOR... moreso like new lore and item rewards that you receive after a nice long questline that doesn't delve even more into what happened to them, but could explain it for new comers while telling a new story about some sort of Dwemer that "survived" or are living in a more spiritual sense.. but you don't just hop into all the goodies like O HAY I FOUND YOU EVEN THO NO ONE ELSE CULD FOR CENTURIES... make us work for that sh*t. Throw some riddles (in the form of a note, map, book, something) out that people have to solve in order to even start up the questline. No super hand-holding junk. Make people think.
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IsAiah AkA figgy
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:17 pm

They are long gone, I for one would be disappointed in Beth if they were to magically resurface after so many hundreds of years.
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Jonathan Windmon
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:47 pm

Well, since we have yagrum bagarn i would consider it possible that a small dwemer community would exist somewhere. If memory serves yagrum was effin' around in some magical planet when the whole [censored] race decided to disappear, and when he came back he was like damn, i'm fat, i have corprus and no friends (official explanation). Maybe some else did the same
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Toby Green
 
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