i really enjoy invalid counterpoints that include total number of hours played.

and, btw, i haven't gotten hundereds of hours of fun. i've had a hundred hours of time playing, but, the content has not all been fun.

unless, of course, repetative and meaningless and noninnovative all in the context of subpar gameplay mechanics, options/customization and dumbed-down, is what you consider fun.

it's not for me.

I don't mind "streamlining" if it makes things more immerse. For example removing classes and the persuasion minigame are great as far as I'm concerned. Because there is not real life anolog.

But some things seemed to have been done just to make the game less immerse (ie realistic) and just easier to play. For example, armor and weapons don't degrade in battle, health regenerates, no spellcrafting, etc. I'm not really in favor of those types of "streamlining"

tojka-

don't you dare use logic on him.

This may seem like a dumb question, but I just have to ask.

Why on earth would you keep playing a game that was so obviously bad?

THAT is exactly what it comes down to, for me. and, i want to drive that point home.

i would be able to look over the meaningless and shallowness of the game if those actual functioning gameplay options were part of the game.

LOL, and yet you have played a hundred hours? You just really bored?

Fixed that for you.

does common sense, logic and reasoning escape you? do i have to actually post every aspect of my rationale for you to grasp something?

and, btw, stop coming up with the incorrect meanings to my posts and then making up things i didn't say.
i didn't say "skyrim is a bad game" or "yes, it's fun but i've only gotten a few hundred hours out of it." i didn't say either, yet, your brain translated it that way.

like i have said, however, the game is fun, for now. but, due to my brain and forethought. not, strictly from the game content, itself.

i've never understood apologists, at times.


edit: lol! wow, another "hours played" rationale. many of you apologists need to start reading other posts from forum members to get an idea of a valid argument.

nostalgia and hours played are not valid arguments to use to ALL criticisms.

Seems like capitalizing sure escapes you.

I've never understood people who say that they don't enjoy a game, but they just play it for hours on end because it's a good workout for their forethought.

SEEMS LIKE PETTINESS AND USELESSNESS DOESN'T ESCAPE YOU.

nerevarine-

we're done here, due to your lack of comrehension to some very simple posts on my part.

It honestly doesn't. I just think if you're going to, in some way, criticize another member for their lack of common sense, logic, or whatever meaningless word you can bring up to satisfy your point, then you should at least capitalize the appropriate letters. I'm not being the grammar police, just saying you shouldn't leave yourself open to such a simple counter argument that in a lot of minds voids what you have to say.

No. Just no...

Daggerfall and Morrowind are irrefutably RPGs. Oblivion leans more towards an action-adventure style approach but is still very much an RPG. And Skyrim is right on the fringe of being an action-adventure game with RPG elements.

imo morrwind on the fringe of being rpg game with loads of action-adventure game elements...

you have no simple counter-argument and nothing is voided. it's not your place to say anything about how i type my posts or the rationale i use.

if you want to debate me on something i've said, then, let's go.

Now I'm curious what EXACTLY is it that makes Oblivion more of a RPG then Skyrim?

Just wait until TES6, Skyrim will be considered one of the best rpgs ever on these forums..

First off I'll say I hate genre tags as they're arbitrary by nature which defeats their purpose.

I played Daggerfall for maybe... 5 minutes before quitting knowing it wasn't for me. I played Morrowind and outside of having attributes and more spells the games are almost identical. They rely on the same crutch, they suffer from similar problems, and they fit more cleanly into "Open world games, with some RPG elements".

If you believe an RPG is nothing more than stats, leveling, skills and abilities than by all means you could classify almost any game as an RPG. If you believe that an RPG is a world that realizes the character that you create then I'd argue Skyrim is the most "RPG" like of any TES game yet.


I have control over my class, the skills I have, the progression, and the attributes of my character in CoD.... does that make it an RPG?

we have less control over less attributes, character creation and character progression.

absence of some things. fusion of other things.

Well for starters, it doesn't have an overly streamlined character development system with rushed progression that's overly reliant on perks. In Oblivion, I actually get to create a character who's unique - not a generic avatar.

More attributes, more skills, better sense of progression.

Indeed, if people actually read the older threads of Oblivion they would see oblivion did get the same amount of "hate" and bashing as Skyrim does, except now it is Oblivion being the superior game, not Morrowind, I'm sure that Morrowind got the same bashing also for not being exactly the same as Daggerfall.

Really? i always felt oblivion just gave me numbers for my skills... and attributes... nothing more then numbers..numbers.......

Character cration is different in one way, you haven't any pre defined class you start as, neither do you choose a birthsign or have attributes that affects your class. Those thing at max level meant nothing at all as you was the best thief, fighter and mage all at once, and that is a difference in Skyrim Once you hit max level here you cannot be the best mage, or the best fighter or the best thief at the same time. So how does that compute into having less control of Character progression? Instead of ending up as a jack of all trades, you know have to choose a path to go and stick with it. I would say that is more control of character progression then Oblivion ever had.

Most RPGs are reliant on your skill tree, or your abilities. TES is one of the few "RPGs" that was heavily reliant on your attributes rather than your abilities, or skill tree.