I haven't read through this entire thread, but I do have a few points to make.

(1) Most likely the biggest problem that fans have with a lot of the complaints is the extreme hyperbole and general tone. I myself have had some (to me, minor) complaints about this or that which I haven't often bothered to make, simply because I don't want to lend any weight to the chorus of OMG SKYRIM SUX BLAH BLAH CASUAL GAMES BLAH BLAH DUMBED DOWN BLAH WoW LOSERS BLAH BLAH BLAH CALL OF DUTY IN A FANTASY SETTING BLAH BLAH hardcoe RRRRRRAAAAAWRRRRR.

(2) Some people complain about the removal of spell creation, yet there are also people complaining about smithing and enchanting. Are there any people making both complaints, because it would seem to be a bit odd to complain about smithing and enchanting as being "game-breaking" when spell creation in Oblivion was every bit as game-breaking.

(3) Somebody made a comment that streamlining is not the same as dumbing down, and somebody else's response was "yes it is", on the grounds that the challenge of the game should be figuring out the game. I have to disagree. If there's one thing I hate having to do with games or with anything else, it's struggle needlessly to figure out just how to use the tool. The challenge should be in figuring out how to solve specific problems within the game, meaning quests and the like. It absolutely should not be challenging to grasp any game mechanic or concept. While I agree the game compass and pointers can be a bit too direct, and that perhaps Bethesda would have been better advised to give people enough information in-game to find where they needed to go, I'm not sure this would work for absolutely every location. Lots of people simply aren't going to enjoy having to scour the countryside to find a given cave without a pointer, especially given how some cave entrances can be difficult to find even in the daytime until you're right on top of them.

1) "Fans" take game criticism AT HEART. They should NOT. The usual "fan" behavior is no more mature than that of a 10yo old child's. They get insulted by people criticising a game and they insult other people, creating a "war" of insults. Critics in general do not even adress to other people - they adress to the game's developers. "Fans" on the other hand tend to adress to other people - which is obviously moronic.

2) You know what? One of my main complains is the exclusion of spell making. Another is that there is no reward/effort for the crafting skills. Not that they are over-powered or imbalanced. But they ARE broken. Because the way they are made, i can't enjoy a simple effort/reward mechanic.

3) The case is simple. Both streamlining and dumping down. Because it was streamlined, meaning it was made to target a greater audience. To target a greater audience other than just RPG fans they need to adjust the game accordingly, which, in the eyes of the RPG and previous TES fans seems as dumping down and it is completely rational.

Unfortunately there arent really that many good ones anymore. Most are 'realtime' instead of 'turn based' and that is just detrimental to any sort of strategy.
Its like playing chess hardcoe, with clocks.
I dont want that, I want to be able to take my time figuring out my move.

I disagree with 3, In my view Bethesda has added more polish and "Simplified" A good amount of the confusing parts.

Pretty much ruined my experience, a third of my builds are gone from that cut mechanic alone. Yeah, because the AI now is so great, pfft. Oblivion had spell creation and everything you just mentioned. I'll take it you've never played an ES other than Skyrim though, since you didn't even know that.

I disagree with 3, In my view Bethesda has added more polish and "Simplified" A good amount of the confusing parts.

Nope, the only ones who complain are the people who bought a BETHESDA game for console, therefor, missing out on mods which add new spells, will add new areas, new creatures, new armors, new weapons, fix things Bethesda wont, I have it for PC, and my only complaint is those who bought it for console, its a dumb move.

What were these confusing parts? Counting to 100?

What were these confusing parts? Counting to 100?

Haha its funny how everything in the past seems that much better isn't it? Like how you look back at High-School and say to yourself ' Ahhh that was a blast' whereas in reality it really wasn't! If you went back and played Morrowind now you would be quite dissapointed, I alas did that just before Skyrim was released, apart from the svcky animations, crappy graphics, and lifeless NPC's that just stand around doing nothing with no routines, there there are those @^@^! flying fricken lizards.... don't get me started on them! For every reason you can say Morrowind is better I can counter with something that wasn't, its like comparing Apples to Oranges, everyone has their opinion but yours doesn't make it 'Fact'!

Chess by the way has (seemingly) simple rules, but from those rules a lot of incredibly complex behaviour emerges.
It isnt a simple game by far.

Not true. Pre ordered my pc version months before it came out and have been playing it since 11-11-11. Even with mods Skyrim just isn't holding my attention.

I do know that because I have played all the TES series going back to Arena 94 so if someone knows the series then trust me it is me! You kept mentioning Morrowind so I was using THAT as an example, infact I noticed most people have skipped Oblivion in any of their rants, its almost as though it didn't even exist which is a shame, I had fun with that game too

I disliked the Old stat system in morrowind and Oblivion I felt that i could not see how these stats affected gameplay.

I do know that because I have played all the TES series going back to Arena 94 so if someone knows the series then trust me it is me! You kept mentioning Morrowind so I was using THAT as an example, infact I noticed most people have skipped Oblivion in any of their rants, its almost as though it didn't even exist which is a shame, I had fun with that game too

Actually, he, not you, are right. Do you honestly believe that people don't play the old games when the new ones are released. If I had a functioning computer, I'd still be playing Morrowind and Oblivion. Instead, I have DOSBox and Daggerfall, and Skyrim on my Xbox.

Morrowind wasn't perfect, but spell-crafting and Acrobatics were awesome in the past games. Alas, no game will live up to the awesomeness of Daggerfall's acrobatics - I was going all "Assassin's Creed" in Sentinel yesterday - in a game that came out almost fifteen years ago.

Flight and crazy jumpy-climby skills are the pinnacle of freedom in a game. Even in Oblivion, I loved the Floating Paintbrushes glitch (I want to undo that "fix" from the Unoffical Oblivion Patch) because it allowed me to get anywhere I wanted to. Or even the "Jump on Potions" trick.

It started after Morrowind.. A lot of people hold Morrow or Dagger as the hallmark. But even the lesser Oblivion has more than Skyrim, unfortunately. A lot of people hated this. Just look at the Oblivion Q/A. But we sort of accepted a new game on a new system that in hindsight we've found they only had 6 months with the hardware. We though "next time". And that next time wasn't even Skyrim. I personally thought when they announced Fallout 3 it was going to be Morrowind-esque. But, we got even less than Skyrim. Then it sunk in. Our fears were realized when every other announcement for Skyrim, pre release, was an announcement of something getting cut.

As in Morrowind you mean, Horrible face models, Horrible animations, Horrible quests, Horrible graphics, horrible combat, Awfull Ai....You people are blinded, Morrowind in my view was A DECENT Role-playing game for the time.....

Here's how i look at it, It is what it is time too quit whining and complaining and just accept that the majority likes the game, and in a democracy the majority rules.

Half of what you say is graphics based. And even for its time Morrow wasn't bad graphically. The quests being horrible is laughable and just a title specific opinion. I doubt you even played it.

As in Morrowind you mean, Horrible face models, Horrible animations, Horrible quests, Horrible graphics, horrible combat, Awfull Ai....You people are blinded, Morrowind in my view was A DECENT Role-playing game for the time.....