Are you saying the physics engine is also dependant on framerate? Can you give an example that we can all test?

Indeed I did, I wouldn't mind the FPS staying at 60 if it didn't mean I had to put up with the insane mouse lag of nearly half a second.

Bump, this needs to stay on top until resolved.

Absolutely. A simple acknowledgement by a Beth person would be nice. In the "2-7 second freeze" thread, GStaff said they were working on it. Hopefully they noticed this thread as well.
This mouse-bug and the XP-freezes are the only two real show-stoppers for me.

ya, lets make this stay on the top...

I think the answer is obvious. I'm guessing that they figured the modding community would finish the game for them.

This is not a bug that modders can solve. This is hardcoded stuff.

Anyone else getting absolutely sick of getting ripped off in this way? Recently I purchased Rage, Stronghold 3, Skyrim - STUNG three times!! To varying degrees all of these products are unusable out of the box. The standards are dropping incredibly low and will continue to do so as long as people will stand to pay good money for this nonsense.

Games are now 100% about promotion, and 0% about content. It's a sad situation that reflects an industry revolving more around money than final product.

I'd rather they release the game a few weeks earlier if that would give them time to test. I understand that consoles are where the money is, but things are reaching new lows with every new game released...

I NEVER expected to see something like this happen from bethesda / ID (with the rage fiasco).

True. Quest bugs I can understand, with a million possible combinations of choices. But a massive bug in the game-interface, that everyone notices after 2 minutes of playtime. Unbelievable.

I keep trying to think of circumstances in which this issue might have slipt through a standard QA procedure. I can't think of one.

The testers only played with 360 controllers?

Perhaps they didn't realize that most PC gamers actually expect keyboard/mouse support?

The bug affects the Xbox 360 controller too! Try it!

No thanks.

But, if so, that's just sad.

If this really affects the 360 controller as well then I guess it means that they only tested with v-sync on.

Pretty sure they intended for us to not be able to turn it off. If it weren't for the extra software a lot of video card companies provide, and the savvy tips from other gamers, most people wouldn't even know how to shut it off anyway. The fact there is no in-game option for it to be turned off, and that the only setting to turn it off is buried in an INI that most people won't bother with, it seems to suggest they expected it to be on. If you turn it off, you are on your own. From their perspective, anyway.

I'm finding that I need to make an attempt to clarify the difference between "Look Speed" and "Mouse Sensitivity." I am trying to Google a solution and all I can find are solutions that attempt to remedy look speed. I concur that the vertical and horizontal look speeds are TERRIBLY different regardless of what anyone attempts to fix using the .ini files...but, the .ini file modifications that I have located DO FIX the look speed of my character. However, my complaint is when I am navigating a game menu (settings, save, inventory, etc.) that I need to move my mouse off and on the mousepad about x3 to move 1/2 across the screen...this is completely lame, frustrating, and is ruining my immersion.
Bethesda is notorious for its NOT RESPONDING, like the man behind the curtain, but I suspect these forums are read by someone within the ivory tower...please fix the problem soon.

This problem is completely pathetic. I understand developing for PC is a lot more involved than consoles, but in this case I'd prefer Bethesda to forget the PC market altogether and save me the $60 for a game I can't even play without getting pissed off. How hard can it really be to have 1:1 controls?

It seems like there's a strong anti-PC culture at Bethesda, such as Pete Hines' recent comment that developing for PC is a "headache." Well Pete, real gaming companies like Blizzard and Valve don't seem to have a problem bringing quality titles with perfect 1:1 controls to Windows, and making excuses isn't going to change the fact that you're charging people for something that's not even beta-worthy.

Just the fact that mouse acceleration and vsync are forced on by default is disgusting, but having your Y axis sensitivity dependent on framerate? Really? I don't even care about all the numerous other bugs and glitches in the game, I couldn't last more than 2 minutes due to the pathetic control problems. Seems like greed is the prevailing factor here. Doesn't matter how good the game is as long as people buy it right? Unfortunately making people hate you is not a good long term business model. I will never buy another Bethesda product.

I was so excited to install this game and get back into Tamriel but as the opening sequence started then let me control my character I was very frustrated to find I couldn't look up or down w/o scrolling my mouse over the mouse pad 3 or 4 times! I tried to bear with it but after just a couple minutes I couldn't take it anymore. I didn't even get through the tutorial part it was so frustrating. I really wanted to play the game though so I spent hours researching online how to make the Y axis on the mouse actually work. I've messed with a few settings in the INI files and it seems to be a little better but it's still just a bandaid that makes the game barely playable. I actually made this account on the forum JUST so I could post about this very issue! It seems i'm not the only one with this problem either. Bethesda, if you're reading, please fix this asap because we really want to enjoy your game but at the moment it's really hard to because of the problem with the Y axis when looking around!

This is happening for me as well. Using the controller until the key-mapping is fixed. And while looking side to size/horizontal the speed is fine, looking up or down goes so freaking fast that I have trouble pointing my view at containers to search them and end up spending 30 seconds each time I try to open any container.

I have V-Sync turned off, and I've saw a lot of threads mention this might be the case (as my frame rates are really high and supposedly this is all tied into your frame-rates). I don't know how true that is, but I'm going to give it a shot and turn my V-Sync back on I guess.

The worse thing is, their implementation of Vsync going all the way back to Oblivion has caused loads of input lag.

I ALWAYS had to disable Vsync forcibly in my GPU settings, Oblivion, Fallout 3, New Vegas, and now Skyrim.

For some reason, I have always been very perceptive of input lag and latency in general, across all my devices, and I would estimate that by default (Vsync enabled) Skyrim suffers from about 400ms of input lag. Enough latency to make mouse aiming imprecise, for users to consistently overshoot objects in the game world, and seriously hamper the overall sense of being in control.

And EVEN SO:

The game is so poorly optimized that no matter how powerful your system there will be lag spikes that cause your frame rate to go BELOW 60, and cause a decrease in sensitivity.

Unless they played at minimum settings on super computers (to get constant 60p render) this problem would have been noticed immediately by any QA team. In which case Bethesda should get a different firm to carry out their testing as their current provider is clearly inept.

Or the game wasn't QA tested at all on PC; a single programmer the night before going to press, after copy and pasting the Xbox 360 build might have hastily booted it and thought 'This will do' without even clicking past the menu screen.

Both situations are abominable and show, dare I say it, Bobby Kotikian levels of disrespect to their paying customers.



Dear Bethesda, you have lost of the respect of many of your customers by consistently releasing flawed products at launch, but you can win at least some of us back,

Let us know that you are aware of the issues and that you are working hard on a patch.

Every day you leave us in the dark, our respect for you decays.

We can only forgive so much.

I have made a dedicated poll including a precise description of the bug http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1270383-bug-vertical-look-speed-tied-to-frame-rate/

I propose that we move all discussion of this issue to that post as this thread has become unwieldy, and the actual problem isn't described until the 3rd page or so.

Thanks.

I'm starting to feel the same way. I passed on Fallout 3 initially but eventually played it on the 360 via Gamefly. I didn't even bother with New Vegas after hearing about the bugs and haven't even looked at Rage after reading about it. For some reason I expected Skyrim to be the game where Bethesda redeemed themselves and gave the PC community and it's modders something of worth...But here we are with an engine that doesn't even fully utilize modern processors/gpus let alone native mouse support. Personally, I can't see much of a future for modding Skyrim. Modding in Oblivion hit a performance wall by the CPU bottleneck in the engine. Skyrim has the same thing and what's worse is that it's readily apparent in it's Vanilla form. How on earth can modders make quality mods with such a performance bottleneck? I just don't see how they could and I've frankly lost all faith in Bethesda's ability to produce a decent title for the PC. Until I'm proven otherwise I'm just going to wait until their titles are in the bargain basemant. I'm not going to allow myself to be excited again by anything Bethesda talks about. I haven't been this let down by a title since Blops not having mod support for Zombies. That was the only reason I bought that game, and the only reason I bought Skyrim for the PC was bc I expected a full-fledged 2011 worthy engine that modders could exploit and create amazing things with.

All my hopes for Skyrim were not only not met, but the things I'd assumed would just be there are absent and it's ruining what positive experience's I could have. Like someone said earlier, I bought a PC title and expected it to function up to spec on the PC. Playing Skyrim on the PC is like buying a T-shirt you're told will fit you only to find out it's 3x too small. It's BS, and it's the last straw I have to give for Bethesda. It's games like this that are the reason sales for games on the PC aren't anywhere near consoles. No one is going to be willing to pay for a title, let alone buy a gaming capable PC, when devs are porting games to the point where they're unplayable, let alone not able to take advantage of any of the pros of PC gaming. They can blame piracy all they want, but the fact is they've done nothing but add to the problem and existing PC players aren't going to forgive them for this one and we aren't going to forget about it and the only way to stop gamers from becoming completely bitter and hostile towards them is to promptly and competently address all these issues. The only way to ever gain our favor back would be to optimize the engine to remove the processor bottlenecks. It's 2011. We have processors with 8cores, several threads, clocked at 5Ghz, and your engine has the same cpu bottleneck that Oblivion has and it was released in 06. It's beyond pathetic.

Confirming that this is the exact issue that plagued me as well. When your FPS is high the vertical movement of my mouse would go wild, but smoothen out when looking at an area that significantly lowered my fps.

I had to turn V-sync back on just to make the game playable again, but this is really unacceptable.


Well said.

I came on the forums just for this issue, and was shocked with how many people have this issue, thought it was just me. As a programmer myself I am shocked that this ever made it past QA, I'd be fired if my software went out with such a school boy error. I'd like to echo another poster's comments regarding never linking program logic ticks to the framerate, I learnt that in one of my first programming lessons in University, and it's literally 10 lines of code to deal with it. Work out how much time the program should wait between frames, process game logic, then wait for the remainder of that time.

I have a little fix which makes the mouse lag better, which means you don't need to turn off v-sync and experience this problem as bad. Put vsync back on but in the Nvidia drivers section, change the value of "maximum prerendered frames" to 1, that will help the lag a lot.

Cheers!