Most of us do not lie well enough or do not have patience to deal with the ones who do.

Hammerfell is probably even worse off than Cyrodiil, considering they fought for five years after the Empire stopped.

Edit:


I disagree, I feel it's still salvageable. If it regains Skyrim it will have a good chance of recovering. I'm not saying it'll be restored to its former glory anytime soon, but it'll be able to recover to be more than what an independent Skyrim would be.

Really the only races that could have a legitimate position that its wrong for skyrim to secede are Bretons, Imperials, and Nords. Every other race's homeland has already either abandoned cyrodiil or is actively against them.

Considering the number of times emperor's have been assassinated in the series's history; and the empire coming back stronger. I hardly doubt the empire is "dead"; or it would've been dead before the first era ended.

Tiber Septim only became emperor after Cuhlecain was assassinated after all.

I was leaning toward the Stormcloaks until I met http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Legate_Fasendil. Talk to him, listen to his story and his opinions on the war. That, and the way the Stormcloaks treated my Dunmer swung me to Imperial. The Thalmor are brutal, and Skyrim needs to be strong, not divided, to stand any chance against them. Legate Fasendil, I thank you for your service to the Empire.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Legate_Sevan_Telendas

my first character was a nord who joined the stormcloaks. I quickly learned that Ulfric was a bit of a d**K and a racist. Ulfric hates the empre for kowtowing to the thalmor when he should be helping them resist. he is too shortsighted to see that fighting the empire just makes things easier for the thalmor who are the real enemies.

I have not done the imperial side of the civil war yet so I dont know how that goes but Tullius cant be as big a fool as Ulfric (I hope)

A lot of good points here.

It seems the people for the empire are thinking of the big picture, of the struggle against the thalmor and how having skyrim would help. My opinion is for the people of skyrim, who I believe would be happier in the hands of Ulfric and the dragonborn, free from the tyranny of the thalmor.

My character would impose racial tolerance as I've stated, helping the people of skyrim be more peaceful with mer. From this quote:
You can see how peace could work in skyrim under stormcloak leadership.

They're also many factors to consider when looking at skyrims strength with the dragonborn. The number of dragons that are peaceful/loyal to him (after the MQ) could provide significant fighting force.

Read my above comment, and the quote within. Skyrim could be peaceful under stormcloak leadership. I see your point though.

lawyered.


I lost you when you were starting to decide if an orc would join the stormcloaks.. ? Of course they wouldn't. The stormcloaks are about Skyrim for the Nords. The motivation for joining the imperials would be slaughtering elves and keeping them away from your strongholds dotted across Skyrim. Either way, if the stormcloaks win, the orcs (and cats, and fairys, and lizards, AND milk drinkers) are screwed, or if the empire loses they're going to get demolished by the Altmer... I don't see many orcs joining either side, but definitely not the stormcloaks, unless as some type of mercenary role, and because he likes armor with a bear head on it.

Read through the comments, also remember you are dragonborn and subsequently unaffected from racial prejudice. 'for the nords' doesn't specifically mean nords only, read my recent posts before this.

You do realise that orsimer (orcs) are mer (elves) too right?

Regardless this is my biggest problem with Skyrim. Too many conflicting quests/factions and such. It just makes no sense why they went about it the way they did. On paper it sounds nice and each has their role like you'd expect, but it's a pretty ridiculous situation. Who knows, maybe that's what Bethesda was going for when they said that Skyrim was in a state of disarray. They certainly did accomplish that. Yet another reason why the Dragonborn should be the high king of Skyrim. He/she's the only exception to everything. Unless you're a Nord or Altmer, role play is ambiguous and you make choices just to make choices and because they are available. The next step from saving Skyrim from a practical deity, is to save it from itself. Simple and epic

I hear the Empire is going after the Thalmor after Skyrim is dealt with quite a bit.If they are so eager all they have to do is recind the WGC Remove the tops of many Justicars and send the tops back to Summerset.

I do believe the military leaders wish to deal with the Thalmor but the civillian leadership(which at least some seem to be influenced by the Thalmor) are against it.

If Skyrim becomes independant I see no reason not to assist other provinces even Cyrodil(Think US and Britain after the revolutionary war)

Nord racism seems to me to be more nationalist fervor than racism but simple ideas for simple minds.

My Char Prefers to take orders then give it. I think it would be better if the jarl of solitude is made high queen, So then tullius could use her as a puppet.

The Thalmor have no love for Orcs or Dark Elves. One group is cursed, the other heritics and therefore they do not deserve immortality.

Ultimately, there's no way to defeat the Thalmor. You can't touch the Dominion territories, you can't join the Thalmor government and take it down from within. Due to the open-ended nature of the civil war, it's very likely that the 'canon' ending will be one which involves a Thalmor victory. If it doesn't, it'll involve some strong outside influence such as the Psijic Order or the Tiger-Dragon Empire.

With that out of the way, it's my belief that the were the races of men divided (Stormcloak victory), a Thalmor victory would be much easier. The Thalmor in Skyrim view the rebellion as a blessing and Ulfric Stormcloak as an asset. They want the war to drag on, so the Empire cannot recouperate and recover from the Great War, but if the war in Skyrim has to end, they'd prefer a Stormcloak victory. A Stormcloak victory destroys the Empire, slaughters a good portion of Skyrim's able-bodied fighters and weakens almost every province occupied by men (Hammerfell being the exception).

I honestly don't think skyrim would have as big of a racial problem with the stormcloaks in power after the war. My comment the end of page 2 explains why.

That's an interesting idea, skyrim would be in a position of power. The dragonborn has a few dragons loyal to him, an incredibly strong understanding of the voice and would be a well respected figurehead to the people. It makes sense for you to be the high king rather than ulfric as someone above stated, but you would still be in a position of power and respect.

Just one thing: It is heavily implied that the Thalmor and the Dominion are very weak after the Great War and would unlikely win if the Empre stands united. They were the ones behind the Civil War IIRC to weaken the Empire. They talk big to seem more powerful than they are.

The Orc comment was to the guy saying orcs would be slaughting other mer.

I did hear some thalmor saying how they would ally with whoever won the war anyway, can't remember who said that though. I still maintain that the best interest for the people of skyrim is stormcloak leadership with the dragonborn in a position of power.

The Thalmor were in a stronger position than the Empire at the time of the signing of the WGC. This is evidenced by the terms of the WGC, but also by the fact that the major battles took place within Empire territory. Summerset Isle is still a stronghold, Elsweyr is flourishing and Valenwood has order for the first time in a very, very long time. By contrast, many of Cyrodiil's monuments and cities have been raised and wrecked, Hammerfell had to recover provinces from Thalmor occupation and Skyrim is now deep into a brutal civil war.

The main issue the Thalmor has is that of population. However, this is a problem shared by the Empire. The Empire tried to buy time to breed and train with the WGC. However, the civl war in Skyrim has made that difficult, as well as the unsteady High Council.

EDIT:



It would be a limited measure unlikely to hold up against a direct Thalmor assault. Skyrim would be in a much better state than Cyrodiil and in a less precarious position than High Rock too, but should the Thalmor attack either of those provinces or Hammerfell, it would only be a matter of time before it was Skyrim's turn.

Moreover, any alliance of men would be extremely unlikely in the aftermath of a Stormcloak victory. Should the Thalmor attack Cyrodiil, neither Hammerfell or Skyrim would have manpower or will to defend it. Both the redguards and nords have suffered large losses of life and diverting forces to Cyrodiil would mean weakening the defenses of Hammerfell and/or Skyrim. Of course, that's saying nothing of the bitterness and mistrust between Cyrodiil and the Stormcloaks as well as Cyrodiil and many redguards. No Imperial general would take orders from Ulfric's men on their homeland. Ulfric himself would not submit to being ordered around by the Empire, regardless of where they were.

IIRC a book in Skyrim states that the terms ended up as they were because both sides overestimated the other. Anyone know the title?

Anyways, the goal of the Thalmor is the destruction of the human races to unmake the world and the only reason the Empire is still standing is because the Dominion was to weak to defeat it. Their armies were also decimated at the battle of the Red Ring, putting them as weak as the Empire was. Combine this with the fact that elves reproduce much slower than humans I think the WGC was equally important to the Thalmor. However, had Titus known how weak the Dominion really was the WGC would have been a little more beneficial, but one point the Thalmor would never give up is the ban on Talos.

It may be the Thalmor plan but quite a few Thalmor plans have not turned out as expected.Hammerfell,Cyrodil,Black Marsh to name a few Thalmor failures.
They make excellent plans it's the execution of the plans that they are not good at

The Thalmor were not as weak as the Empire. The Thalmor still had all their lands and assests save for the manpower. The WGC's terms unequivocally favour the Thalmor and Thalmor interests. The suppression of Talos as divine is extremely beneficial to their long-term goals. Being able to roam the Imperial provinces and enforce this ban is a massive boon. Similarly, had the WGC gone ahead as it was signed, much of southern Hammerfell would belong to the Thalmor.

What would the Thalmor give up in return? Nothing.

The WGC was designed to buy time while both sides rebuilt their armies and rethought their tactics. The Thalmor were not in a great state, but they were in a much better position than the Empire.


Hammerfell and Cyrodiil are part of the same flawed plan, which was also the Empire's flawed plan and resulted in the WGC. The Thalmor might well have conquered Hammerfell had they not underestimated the Imperial forces in Cyrodiil and switched their priorities. The Thalmor have never battled the Argonians on that scale.

As far as Black Marsh I did not mean to imply a battlefield failure.I was speaking about their attempt to gain influence in Black Marsh and being basically run out of town.

It was never a priority. The Thalmor see the Empire as their main threat. The Black Marsh is something they believe can be dealt with easily, given time. I'm sure I overheard something about boiling the place... -shudders-