dice rolls ie probability is realistic, if your skilled at sword play there will be less probability of missing. Currently you cant miss.
The problem was not the use of probability in mw it was the lack of animation that has made it not stand up to more modern mechanics, which are just as unrealistic just more riseral. If every strike that was out of range missed automaticly and ever strike in range hit with a percentage chance dependent on skill with a leaning/dodge ani for misses and a knock/stagger ani for hits, both systems could be amalgimated for more realistic system. That way youd still need to swing on target/could manualy dodge out of range, but wouldnt always hit at low skill due to miss judging the attack, as ai nots going to beable to dodge/lean out the way of blows, something is needed to put it place to make it feel like there are. imo skill doesnt mean more base damage, a sword doesnt become heavyer and sharper the more skilled you get, your just more likely to hit the correct area, so imo skill should just increase critical chance, and critical multiplyier.

I love Morrowind, more so than Oblivion and Skyrim...but I'll have to disagree, YEAH it "simulated" them parrying and you just missing, and that was sorta fine (I STILL think Gothic did it better though) but when I miss with a Daikatana swinging Horizontally...I kinda have an issue but I've modded that out for something more..."realistic". no the always never fail hit the enemy thing isn't...that great of a solution but its better.

Best Combat I've played in a TES game? Deadly reflex. dodge parrying, bashing, yeah All of that. don't know why they didn't get that in for Skyrim. Combats a mirror of Oblivion with better anims...

Yeah, because missing a slug on the ground with a warhammer is so realistic.

So true. Maddening.

Morrowind trued to mix action with RPG. It got the balance wrong. Luckily this has been rectified in later games.

Before Skyrim came out i tried playing Morrowind again after tons of hours in oblivion, and quit after a few hours, the combat system in morrowind was too boring with that much time spent in oblivion. Now with Skyrim its gonna be even harder to get back there.
Morrowind was great, will always have a special place on the games shelve here, but its past for me. Still played more Morrowind then i did Oblivion, and depending on the awesomeness of mods to come out, probably longer then Skyrim aswell.
Loved to trash Vivec foulmouthed guards, but here, guards dont respawn anymore, once you trashed em they gone Or i havent played long enough gametime on one toon, and i miss the speechcraft options Morrowind had making it possible for them to attack you and kill without crime. Theyre still around but only if the quest requires it to be.

... and i miss cliffracers, no wait what am i saying ...

Some people like to ride their right trigger like it's Megan Fox and kill anything they see at level 1.

The rest of us play Morrowind.

And just line up the cursor abd jab the mouse over and over, as if it has any bearing as to what actually happens...

I agree. heck when I first started martial arts I thought I knew the length of my own feet, but it`s amazing how often you come short or go too far. You literally have to know your length. It should be the same as a new starter in any rpg.

But like said, this would annoy the crowd that consider rpgs are for geeks, yet play them anyway!

Those posters which are slamming Morrowinds Dice role mechanics need to remember that:

1. its the OP's opinion that he feels the mechanics are better.
2. Morrowind is, what, 10 years out of date at the moment. I still revisit it today, as do many others. That has got to say that it had something special, if not the combat mechanics

If you're not close enough to your opponent in Skyrim, you will miss too.

I miss all the time in Skyrim, but not because the game decided that I missed even though my aim was true and I was well in range, but because I didn't get close enough to the enemy, or because the enemy moved after I started my swing and I did not readjust my aim in time.

The chance to miss has been passed onto the skill of the player, instead of relying on the computer to randomly decide if you've missed or not.

I dont having a Calculator sayong ''you miss 38% of the time because of such and such'' was the most anoying thing about MW, while i love MW and hold nostalgia for it, over all i beleive skyrim is better, especially in combat, in real life i dont have a calculator which goes ''direct hi....no no sorry you miss this one'' and then fall flat on my feet? if you miss it should be your fault not the computer systems.

Seeing as one can easily hit something even one isn't "skilled" in it if you actually make contact with it I must disagree.

I think for its time when it first went into development to it's release, Morrowind targeted a specific audience, combat was never the main focus although still very important of course. RPG's back then were more about the story and characters where as these days Bethesda while still retaining their core fan base have gone for a more action adventure/RPG to draw in in the mainstream crowd. I much prefer Skyrim's combat over Morrowind's, but i never had a problem with it back in 2002/3, the game it self soon made up for any flaws it had with it's limitless freedom and the sheer amount of things you could do. Something Skyrim has had to sacrifice a little.

Jiub agrees with me.

I don't think it's a case of just annoying a certain demographic. I just think that in 2012 the expectations in gaming are higher. People don't want to see an old fashioned game mechanic based firmly on chance and background mechanics. They want to feel like they're actually fighting, and that they're ability to do so improves via training and a upgrading what they fight with.

They want to SEE the change. Not imagine a dice roll.




They do, yes. Most people however, don't. And there's been quite a lot of explanation as to why. Nobody's right. Nobody's wrong. But there's been a lot of very well argued discussion here.




10 years this year. Man. That went fast.

It did have something special. It was one of the first games to have an open world of this scale, and to offer quite so much in the way of story and exploration. Which was awesome. It's a landmark game. And I love playing it.

That said, even in 2002 certain game mechanics were a little duff. The combat system was a chief offender. Dialogue another. Even as a gamer back in 2002 I found those elements to be in dire need of improvement. Little things, like the lack of a compass, were annoying, but those two are the the things which frustrated me the most, because they broke my immersion in an otherwise damn fine game.

ah yes that [censored] Morrowind dialogue. Because reading is too hard!

Nothing wrong with reading. It was the hyperlinks for new subjects, plot points and locations. After hours and hours of play I found myself ignoring what was being said, and just clicking the hyperlinks. If something got added to my journal I checked it out. Otherwise I got a bit lax. Really broke immersion for me at times. Because I was doing it on autopilot.

Well it's not entirely realistic that I can hit someone up to 20 times with a sword without killing him because I have no skill in swordfighting.

Let's look at what is really going on, and why the dice roll mechanism was removed:

To injure someone in Morrowind I hit the mouse button, and depending on my skill I either hit or miss and deal damage to my opponent. So if I have a 40% chance to hit and do 5 pts of damage with each hit and swing 20 times I will deal 20x0.4x5 = 40 pts of damage.
In Skyrim the mechanism has removed the to-chance hit and instead set a damage formula depending on my skill, so instead of 5 pts of damage with each hit, I score only 2pts (40%) damage with each hit. The result is that if I swing 20 times I do 20x2 = 40 pts of damage. The end result is the same, but since the TES experience is about delivering a first-person action system, from the perspective of the player, the later system is a more accurate representation of the experience the game is aiming at providing.

In terms of realism and actually hitting something I would have to say that most people can hit a target that is within range with a sword, and that such a hit would inflict substantial damage. The archery is what gets me as much more unrealistic, in my experience I can′t even hit a full size person from point blank range with a bow, much less perform the type of sniper shots you deliver at low skill levels in Skyrim. But again, I suppose it's more about delivering a cohesive first-person experience than realism.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/investigators_agree_center_poi.html

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?t=6760263

http://www.sj-r.com/breaking/x1712048019/Man-accidentally-stabs-himself


Real life disagrees.

well maybe when stamina drops or you get low HP your swings could fall short and u are reduced to draging the sword behind u

I agree THAT would be cool.

but in MW the utter lack of animation or representation or whatever u want to call it just made it feel stupid and "unrealistic" of sorts

btw the troll avatar might make some people suspicous

I could see how even a novice sword user would miss a big portly mudcrab 10 times out of 15.

Morrowind's combat system was the worst combat system I've ever seen in a game. I despised it in 2004 and I despise it now.

My character's success should rely on my skill and also his skills. Not some stupid magic dice roll that dictates whether or not I hit the guy, despite the fact I just saw my sword slice through his chest.

Really? If i pick up a sword I can hit anything i want with it...Maybe you should check your blood sugar...lol




Seriously tho. Action RPG or Dice roll RPG is what it comes down to.

I prefer action... Its more intense. When i see a sword swing connect i expect damage. Sound simple enough....I don't wanna the word 'miss' come up.

Except Oblivion's and Skyrim's combat aren't character skill based, they're player skill based. Character skill is only taken into account with the damage done.

I find Skyrim's combat to be much more realistic (and Oblivion's at that too). If my sword connects, then it connects. No Mehrunes Dagon laughing in the background negating my attacks like a uberpowerful Faceless Void

Perhaps it's the element of the enemy dodging/parrying/blocking or some such that makes it realistic, but when you have felt your sword banging the enemy's body, I believe it's entirely your right to have them damaged, even if just a bit.

personally i think Bethesda did ok with combat simulation,but it could be much better - for example autoaim - there must be some sort of penalty for using weapon that you are not proficient with - like bows. Hitting at long ranges at level 1 should be hard to do, but it shouldnt be achieved by altering the arrow flight, but by messing with player aiming animation - so if player is low level archer, his hands will be not completly steady, therefore hitting something should be hard, and only possible from shorter ranges. Once player learns how to shoot, his hand should become more steady so it will be easier to hit something.Important part is - arrow physic should not be altered.