I doubt there was any tribes consisiting of hundreds of thousands. Probably 500 to 1000 the most. Not a big accomplishment. When caesar conquered gaul and defeated armies that consisted of 10's of thousands of men that was a military accomplishment. Do I really need proof that these tribes were on the small side? There's no tribe of a 100,000 out there roaming the wastes.

Who the heck said 100,000 population?

You must be reading the wrong post.

"Big" is probably 700-1200 people in Fallout, After bombs dropped.

My point is that he hasn't proved himself as a great leader by simply conquering small tribes, then losing to ncr in a major battle. Fallout caesar isn't comparable to julius caesar and thus his accomplishments of subduing small tribes is overshadowed by the atrocities he committed.

Didn't you ask me to show where it says tribes are small? You're telling me yourself they can't consist of more than 1200 people. That's small. 2000 would be small. 4000 wouldn't even be a decent army

You did'nt even listen to me, Tribes in FALLOUT can't be compared to what they would be for us.

LOL @ people who think "sharecropper" = "slave". Join the 21st century and learn to Google sometime. Sharecropping is alive and well in the U.S. and other places all over the world.

"Sharecropping is a system of agriculture in which a landowner allows a tenant to use the land in return for a share of the crop produced on the land (e.g., 50% of the crop). This should not be confused with a crop fixed rent contract, in which a landowner allows a tenant to use the land in return for a fixed amount of crop per unit of land (e.g., 1 T/ha). Sharecropping has a long history and there are a wide range of different situations and types of agreements that have encompassed the system. Some are governed by tradition, others by law. Legal contract systems such as the Italian mezzadria,[1] the French métayage, and Spanish Mediero[2] occur widely. Islamic law contains a traditional "musaqat" sharecropping agreement[3] for the cultivation of orchards."

My argument from the beginning was that fallout caesar doesn't have the credentials to be a great leader. All that's present is the atrocities and minor accomplishments of defeating small tribes. He then loses a major battle against ncr. Supposedly he has a large army himself if he has centurions and a actual field commander, thus, conquering tribes of a thousand people is not an accomplishment. I also stated that what julius caesar accomplished was a testament to him being a great leader, general and politician. To put it more simply for you: fallot caesar, army of thousands, conquers smaller tribes and loses to ncr in a major battle. Julius caesar, army of 10's of thousands conquers 100's of thousands and defeats the gauls and then wins a major civil war upon returning home

BoS isn't interested in ruling a country.

We have no idea what life is like for the actual citizens of the Legion, considering all we see in New Vegas are the military forces. We never encounter an actual Legion village, town or city. What we are seeing are the folks who are in the path of their expansion. From what we know, the territory controlled by Caesar is safer, and they seem to do pretty well with the traders. Perhaps tribes that fell under Legion control earlier have it better? We can't say either way.



700-1200 may even be pushing it...

Only atrocities are present because the region is a warzone, not conquered and "absorbed" land. And are you saying that one lost battle is the mark that denies a "great" leadership? And I'd say comparing Julius Caesar and Fallout Caesar without taking the circumstances into account doesn't quite lead to a fair result.

I agree, I despise Caesars Legion, but I am awed by the aura Caesar gives. Granted his description isnt as awe inspiring as Julius Caesar, to be fair, we don't know ALL that Caesar has done, only that he was a FotA that civilized tribes. IMO that sounds underwhelming, but to conquer 86 tribes and reform or crush them is quite a feat in my eyes. And Hoover Dam was lost because of Legate Graham, so we can't blame Caesar when it was his tactician that failed him.

By the way, some extra reading on the Wikia has led me to adjust my gauge on the BoS. They couldn't care less about the folks in the Wastes. They just want the technology. They will work to install some sense of order, but probably just so that they can maintain control over a region and use it to feed their somewhat unhealthy hunger for technology.

Beating smaller tribes and losing a major battle doesn't really prove anything no matter what circumstances there are. The facts are that the legion seems to specialize more in brutality and cruelty than anything else. Seems there's either soldiers or slaves and nothing else... Just a mediocre army large enough to face ncr. And it doesn't matter who the field tactician is, it was ultimately caesar that lost the battle. Maybe he should have been close to the front lines to inspire and lead his troops, but its more likely he was hanging out in a tent. Not very caesar-like

You do realize that CL probably has more enemies than just NCR right?

I thought not.

I agree.

They 'probably' have more enemies? What can a handful of small tribes do against even a mediocre small army? Not much. Having 'probably' more enemies doesn't prove a great deal

Who said they were small tribes?

Gosh to you its always small.

Jesus, This is'nt going to get anywhere.

The legion troops are better trained than the NCR troops. While NCR troops are getting Wasted at Gomorrah the Legion troops are training. Also this time the Legion would probably win if the courier wasn't involved because the NCR would find themselves under attack from two fronts (The Dam and the Mojave Outpost from Nipton and Cottonwood). Honestly the only way for NCR to survive this would be to abandon the Mojave entirely and focus on their own problems at home instead of getting involved in someone else's.

And saying "smaller tribes" doesn't really tell anything about the actual size of them. Smaller than what and how much?

See, I am a supporter (if not founder) of the Joshua Graham conspiracy, so the it is apparent that Caesar himself is quite underwhelming.

Once the patch is rolled out and I finally boot my game up for the first time since I bought it, I'll be playing a 'good' playthrough first. I always do, I don't like doing 'bad' things. I'm just weird like that, especially in RPG's. Of course, I'll have an evil playthrough but I'll be following the 'good' faction for starters, whoever that may be. I'll be playing through for all factions though, so I will eventually mix it up.

1000 people is small imo compared to an army of thousands. You said yourself...probably no more than 700-1200. Is that large?

In the fallout universe I would say yes.

I already said, Thats large in the fallout universe.

Then even if a thousand is 'large' by fallout standards, the legion has to have thousands in their ranks...which would severely outnumber other tribes.