Thank you, Jambo. I hope that Bethesda infers from our posting and being here, that there is still hope; and that there is a way to a positive solution for everyone, if handled appropriately and truthfully.




Glad to hear that's not a problem for you anymore.

And there it is. Just saying.

But that's not why I came into this thread. That was just coincidence. This is why...





Okay then. In an effort to elevate the discussion in this thread, I'm going to repost some of my comments from one the threads which got locked and redirected here; followed by a question.

It has been suggested in various threads that are now closed, that many of us are reading into Bethesda's posts, being unreasonable and expecting too much by wanting information about the 1.4 patch and beyond.

I've argued against this point before, that there is an inference of a timeliness which can be taken from Bethesda's official posts here, and from their promotional materials leading up to the game's release, derived solely from the words and phrasing chosen.

Though they don't specifically state outright when patches will be released, they don't state when they won't be either. Yet I have not read or watched a single thing that uses wording which directly implies that updating and patching is going to take what the average person would likely consider to be a long period of time, such as a month or longer between updates. The 1.3 update went live just over a month ago, and many have been waiting for a lag fix for nearly two months.

So while many are reading meaning into it that isn't implicitly there, much of the wording is designed to lead the reader toward interpreting it a certain way; which is that things are being done, and are going to be done, in a timely and frequent manner.

For example, here are the three official comments which I have found posted on this site regarding the 1.4 patch, which do not reference or link to these three...

Dec. 1st: "This week we released update 1.2 across all platforms, and we’ll be releasing an incremental update next week. We anticipate it will be up on PC first, and then hit PS3 and Xbox 360 later in the week. Among other things, the update will fix issues like magic resistance not calculating properly and the rare, amazing backwards flying dragon. Once the update is released, we’ll share the full release notes.

After the holidays, we’ll continue to release regular updates for the game — through full title updates, as well as incremental “gameplay updates” to fix whatever issues come up along with rebalancing portions of the game for difficulty or exploits. We plan on having a lot of these, not just a few. Overall, you should expect updates to be hitting the PC and Steam earlier and more often, as that’s a process we control. Console updates will follow, as they must be certified and processed by those manufacturers."

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1300559-skyrim-what-were-working-on/page__p__19579655#entry19579655

---

Dec. 22: "The January 1.4 update is well underway right now for all platforms, along with the http://www.bethblog.com/2011/12/01/skyrim-what-were-working-on/."

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1322016-holiday-update/page__p__19874546#entry19874546

---

Jan 12: 1.4 is in the works and will have numerous fixes that have been reported. As soon as we have information on the date (and the finalized notes), we'll let everyone know.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1332244-patch-14-discussion-merged-similar-topics/page__st__60__p__20049174#entry20049174

---

And that's it.

There have been a few comments on Twitter, in response to other tweeters; however nothing substantial or that adds more to the discussion than has been said previously.

Adding to this, though not specifically related to the January 1.4 patch, yet going more to my point of inferring a timeliness and frequency which has yet to manifest, is the following interview with Todd Howard on Kotaku from back in August.

"They are also adopting this new EA Sports-style "live update" system that will let Bethesda tweak the data in their game almost immediately. If a quest isn't triggering because players are doing some unforeseen combination of actions, that might be addressable by tweaking the data tables that dictate the flow of events in the game. If the game is proving to be unbalanced in an unexpected way, that can be fixed on the fly too. And these fixes—Howard prefers to call them "improvements"— will take effect fast. "We can change stats on a sword and it will be available to everyone in a few hours," he said."

http://kotaku.com/5834914/the-skyrim-team-has-a-better-plan-for-squashing-bugs-this-time

So clearly something has changed since then, and that was abandoned. Fine, I understand. However the point which I'm trying to clarify with this is that in this article, Bethesda is overtly expressing an intent and desire to make timeliness and frequency of updates a priority, to the point of going out on a limb and using it as a pre-release promotional selling point.

They recognize that timeliness with updates is important, to the gaming community, and apparently to Todd Howard and the development team, and imply an interest in transparency of communication with sharing so; yet the situation we find ourselves in 70 days after release is what we got instead.

And the inference which I take from all of this, is that something is wrong.

So what happened?

And why isn't anyone from Bethesda saying anything or updating the community? One of the takeaways I got from the pre-release promotional material, interviews and the blog, which I followed for most of the last year, was a desire for an increased transparency with the public; yet that has completely dried up since the game release. At first I just took it as the holidays, that they were all tired from making the release date, and had gone on a much deserved vacation. But now it's just coming across as if they genuinely don't care, and that all of that promotion was just to inspire confidence in the public and to get copies moving off of the shelves.

And so to my final question...

I would like to know if the January 1.4 Patch is going to address the following; or if not, what is being done about it.

http://kotaku.com/5865381/trying-to-explain-skyrims-awful-ps3-lag

So far the only official comment to Josh Sawyer's explanation of the situation with Skyrim and the PS3 is when Pete Hines posted the following:

"No, it isn't true. He brings up issues we solved long ago... Josh Sawyer did not work on Skyrim nor this engine and his comments don't reflect how the current tech works."

http://www.vg247.com/2011/12/07/bethesda-debunks-obsidian-devs-skyrim-ps3-lag-theory/?

And in the Holiday Update, Pete Hines said, "we've learned the game can get in some states where it severely taxes the PS3 in particular. We've been working hard to find and fix those with your help."

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1322016-holiday-update/page__p__19874546#entry19874546


Well then... how does the current tech work differently? Why are we experiencing the same symptoms?

None of us knows if a fix for the PS3 lag is actually going to be a part of the January 1.4 Update, as that post doesn't state that it will, and all of Bethesda's comments in other media outlets have been worded rather vaguely - though one could could again infer that it might, due to the wording.

Why can't someone official come in here and just give it to us straight? The mods do it frequently, just telling it like it is.

We all want a fix for our game, and I'm sure most of us want that to be done properly and not rushed. We're not asking for a rush job, or to be given an itemized list that we will hold your feet to the coals over if it doesn't happen. Those who are asking for information just want some straight talk for a change. The community has put it's faith in Bethesda, yet that faith is being worn down; and our patience is not an eternal well spring.

So Bethesda... why not give it a shot, and show a little faith in the community? Who knows, the truth might just set you free.

1.4 patch news apparently coming 'very soon' according to the BethBlog Twitter -

https://twitter.com/#!/Bethblog/status/159464486468714496

Let's hope they stay true to their word...

1.4 patch news apparently coming 'very soon' according to the BethBlog Twitter -

https://twitter.com/#!/Bethblog/status/159464486468714496

Let's hope they stay true to their word...

"And in the Holiday Update, Pete Hines said, "we've learned the game can get in some states where it severely taxes the PS3 in particular."

That irks me.


Is the ps3 a new machine? Have they seen it before? Did they develop for the ps3 (port a 360 game) not knowing the specs? Did they develop for the ps3 not knowing what its capable of doing and not doing?

His statement could imply the hardware is to blame, not the code.

"And in the Holiday Update, Pete Hines said, "we've learned the game can get in some states where it severely taxes the PS3 in particular."

That irks me.


Is the ps3 a new machine? Have they seen it before? Did they develop for the ps3 (port a 360 game) not knowing the specs? Did they develop for the ps3 not knowing what its capable of doing and not doing?

His statement could imply the hardware is to blame, not the code.

I don't think Hine's quote implies the hardware at all. It's an admission that the software over-taxes the PS3. Developing software for any system is not so easy as reading the system specs and running off to write the code.

He just needs to come out and say Beth can't or won't code properly for PS3 and either not release any more Ps3 ports or let another company do it for them,

That's a fairly broad statement. The game wouldn't work at all if they didn't get at least some of it right. It certainly needs help and there are likely many things they can do differently in the development process (across all platforms), but implying that they are wholly incapable seems disingenuous at best and ignores that fact that people are able (albeit, not without issue) of apply tens or even hundreds of hours into the game.

That's a fairly broad statement. The game wouldn't work at all if they didn't get at least some of it right. It certainly needs help and there are likely many things they can do differently in the development process (across all platforms), but implying that they are wholly incapable seems disingenuous at best and ignores that fact that people are able (albeit, not without issue) of applying tens or even hundreds of hours into the game.

I'm going not only from research but experience with Oblivion (not ported by Beth) Fallout 3 (horrible mess) blah bla bla. They abandoned O3 after a certain amount of time, go check the forums. They are still having the same issues in Skyrim, so common sense would indicate they DON'T know how to fix it.
Oblivion is great on PS3 becaue another company ported it over.
Bottom line, we paid 60 bucks for a game that's broken, and those of us that have bought previous games are skeptical about a proper fix. I myself was overjoyed when ole Petey said they had a brand new engine for Skyrim, thus tricking people into buying it. But "new" was just a glammed up Gamebryo. So that was a blatant LIE. I don't know, I just wanted to play it, now I feel as I have to inform all my friends not to get this for PS3 or at all, since it also fails as an RPG....

Ubisoft ported Oblivion to the PS3. That's odd because games like Assassin's Creed run pretty badly on the PS3 and it was released in the same year as the PS3 version of Oblivion (2007).

implying that they are wholly incapable seems disingenuous at best and ignores that fact that people are able (albeit, not without issue) of apply tens or even hundreds of hours into the game.

Ubisoft ported Oblivion to the PS3. That's odd because games like Assassin's Creed run pretty badly on the PS3 and it was released in the same year as the PS3 version of Oblivion (2007).

I'm going not only from research but experience with Oblivion (not ported by Beth) Fallout 3 (horrible mess) blah bla bla. They abandoned O3 after a certain amount of time, go check the forums. They are still having the same issues in Skyrim, so common sense would indicate they DON'T know how to fix it.
Oblivion is great on PS3 becaue another company ported it over.
Bottom line, we paid 60 bucks for a game that's broken, and those of us that have bought previous games are skeptical about a proper fix. I myself was overjoyed when ole Petey said they had a brand new engine for Skyrim, thus tricking people into buying it. But "new" was just a glammed up Gamebryo. So that was a blatant LIE. I don't know, I just wanted to play it, now I feel as I have to inform all my friends not to get this for PS3 or at all, since it also fails as an RPG....