Yeah that was me. I expected that sort of answer or not at all.

So you jump in feet first not knowing what you're doing?

Over taxing the hardware throught the software is still implying the hardware can't handle the stress. That is implying the hardware is the weak link.

If he said, "Our software causes an even that stresses the ps3". The hardware is still stressed but its not the weak link because its being subjugated to an unforeseen situation. One that wasn't planned for.



It the software was coded properly from the begining to make allowances for the ps3's strenghts and weaknesses there we be no reason for the statement he made and we wouldn't be waiting for a miracle patch.

So still no patch for the PS3... The Kingdoms of Amalur demo just got released on PSN. Its looking good. If this game comes out and Skyrim doesn't have a patch by February when Kindoms of Amalur is released, I'm selling my copy of Skyrim. Pffft...

Lol yeah their more preoccupied with tweeting about the new "Fallout New Vegas Ultimate Edition" than posting patch notes or updating their forums. I will never buy that for ps3 since they probably didn't fix the lag there either.

No it's not. I can take any system on this planet and create software that over utilizes it. If I take a 1 gallon bucket but try to put 1.1 gallons in it, it will overfill. The problem is not the bucket, but how I'm using it. If someone comes by and asked why the floors are wet and I reply "because I over filled the bucket" I would not be commenting on the bucket so much as I am on my own inability to properly use it.

Now with software you can require that certainly platform needs to meet certain specifications in order to run your software on it, but with the PS3 that is generally fixed. You only have one bucket. So you have to properly use it to do what you want it to do. And what you want it to do, must be scaled to fit the bucket.


You're reading too much into his statement and placing meaning where that might not be any. What he basically said is "We're overfilling the bucket."


Every computer system or component has it strengths and weaknesses, but these are not always well known. And usually only become known through experience. There are many factors involved in developing software for any system. For example, how well is the system and usage documented? How well are deviations from the documented usage explained (errata)? What issues are inherit to the design of the system that might cause unexpected behavior? How well will the system provider support us? And these are just some of the few of the many, many factors.

And yes, as anyone whose ever developed software before will tell you, the best way to learn about a system is to program on it. In other words, you have to do in order to do. You have to jump in "feet first" though I would normally describe it has jumping in "head first." It is the best way to learn and retain information.

In the end though, it is correct to generally criticize that their PS3 implementation as lacking or disappointing or whatever other adjective you want to use. I would go a step further and say that their development practices as a whole are lacking. They're not however incompetent.

I hope when I wake up tomorrow I will read "Patch 1.4 released and is a great success", otherwise it's just gonna be another normal day of waiting. I'm on holiday still and university starts begin Feb, so I would like to play Skyrim before then.

Update on 1.4 - http://www.bethblog.com/2012/01/19/news-on-the-creation-kit-and-game-updates/

Bit referring to the PS3 lag:


No release date as of yet, could be a week or so away though judging from the anguage they used.

Also looks like the ash pile glitch (where it would not cleanup) is being fixed too.

Is Bethesda still asking people for their save files...more than two months after release?

When there's cases where we want to investigate an issue... absolutely. For the most part, we're looking at issues that previously haven't been reported.

Long term play optimizations for memory and performance(PS3) So basically 'general stability improvements' just reworded. Wow this company and their patches are about as useless as nipbles on a briastplate.

Lag cannot and will not be fixed.

Good to know, thanks.

How about we actually wait for the patch and test it out before jumping to conclusions such as this?

Past track record not mean anything to you?

So what if their past track record is bad? If they actually do fix the lag then I'm sure most people will forget any past experiences.

If they've never fixed issues before, what makes you think they can/will now. I would absolutely love for this game to be fixed, but Bethesda's past record, and their seemingly uncaring attitude, doesn't bode well for PS3 owners. I'm waiting for the patch hoping for a fix, but let's be realistic a fix probably isn't coming.

Patch 1.2:

Patch 1.4:

You'll note that neither of those are denoted as being fixed and you'll also note that many of us said that the 1.4 patch notes would read almost identically to the 1.2 patch notes in terms of the PS3 framerate issue.

There's a large difference between being realistic and being pessimistic. The reality is that the game has issues and Bethesda says they've done something to improve it. It would be nice if they provided a little more detail but the most of us wouldn't know what to make with that detail. Stop trying to hold on to your anger. Let's see what the patch really does first.

Anyone know what "Fixed infinite loop with bookshelves" is referring to?

I think it's related to the Daedra Quest concerning the Oghma infinium(sp)

I'm not even angry anymore, I'm pretty much over this game. I would love to continue playing it, but it's not going to happen, because I don't think they can fix it, short of a recall and rebuilding specifically for PS3. Sure I'll wait for the patch and test it to see what it does, but I know it will probably do nothing, just like how patch 1.2 "fixed" the lag.

I personally think that the change log looks great. Patch 1.3 DID improve a lot of framerate issues and improved long term stability a bit. If 1.4 improves it even more then that will be even better. Ash piles is one thing I'm super excited about since I like to level conjuration by reserecting EVERYTHING I kill then kill it again. It was leaving them EVERYWHERE. So I'm sure with out them hangin around, that in itself will improve my save file and stability over long run of certain charactor types.
I can't be negative about anything that they try to help make Skyrim better. It is potentually one of the greatest RPGs in the Elderscrolls series. So what if it had a rough and long start. I'm past being aggrivated about it (obviously some aren't). It's still gonna be on my shelf to play as they improve it, and it wil get better each time, just as it has with the previous patches.
I'm also glad to hear that they are continuing to look into further improvements and more patches. We know there are things not on the change log, and they do to. I don't care if it takes til next year to fix. Skyrim is worth wating for.

i don't know if this is acurate but gameinformer posted up some 1.4 info. take it with a grain of salt.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/01/19/new-skyrim-patch-updates-detailed.aspx


Edit: never mind it's official it's at top of the page in the forum.

Please... If it was fixed, they would use words such as, hmmm..FIXED. They've don this in the past and will continue to do so until they don't use Gamebryo anymore. Creation=Shiny Gamebryo, and they even took the shine away in a patch.

I can list webpages that show same bugs and same lame-o fixes, just as this patch denotes -
http://kotaku.com/5072534/ps3-fallout-3-a-bit-broken
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_bugs
I could go on and on, but same bugs, same engine problems, and they WERE NEVER FIXED. Blatant proof they DO NOT know how to correct this. They should refund any and all PS3 versions if the buyers want. If this happened in any other outlet of retail that would have been done by now.

I'd be pleased if they fixed it. And it isn't, and with the wording of the notes, it still isn't. They would have used a keyword, such as "fixed".

The nature of the problem is that the game is tracking altogether too much information. People on the PC have found a lot of the horribly inefficient ways the game is tracking obsolete or redundant information (like re-applying a stacking of the Nirnroot glow/sound for all discovered Nirnroots every day; like keeping corpses and their locations/orientations/contents saved in memory far too long; or for ash piles, forever). The means of addressing this would be to reduce the incidence of such unneeded information (clear out zones more frequently, get rid of ash piles at cell cleanup, stop wasting space on crap like Nirnroot stacks).

As such, this isn't a method that "fixes" the problem. The problem cannot be "fixed". It can be mitigated and reduced (and, as the word they chose to use: optimized). Which will often (hopefully usually) result in the reduction or elimination of symptoms. But if the problem is tracking too much info, the only 'fix' would be tracking no info, which obviously isn't a solution. All that's left is that somewhere in between - tracking *less* info. And hopefully the amount of information that is actually tracked post-patch is now reduced such that the overwhelming majority never break the threshold that causes lag.


If someone goes out and makes ten billion distinct potions, the game's probably going to choke. I, for one, don't want the game arbitrarily deleting equipment for the sake of memory management. I'd just rather they track useful information as optimally as possible , and make it so that people who wind up with so much information tracked that it causes lag-or-worse are outlying cases and not the norm, like they are now.