sheogorath the CoC : V - Skyrim

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:32 pm

the thing is that sheogorath seems to know Pelagius 3 when he lived, and he lived way before the champion of cyrodill

well it has been two hundred years and last i looked, thats a long enough time to know someone.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:52 am

I said this a few days ago, but you can't really say the CoC is Sheogorath unless you also say CoC is Listen of the Dark Brotherhood, Grey Fox, Arch Mage, and Guildmaster of the Fighter's Guild. And the Divine Crusader. Which means CoC is someone who according to lore, completed every singe quest. Which simply isn't true for most people, especially RPers who make good or evil characters.

The only truth is that all of those events happened. Those guild lines, and becoming Sheogorath. If you played a pure good guy who didn't become Sheogorath and promote torture, then it's not CoC. Someone else during that era might have wandered in and became Sheogorath.

Someone who was directly involved in the oblivion crisis throughout the whole ordeal and witnessed martin becoming an avatar of akatosh. Skyrim Sheo mentioned both of these things.

Anyway I think people are taking this way too seriously. Notice how they didn't give TOO much info on him, this meant that those who played SI would realise the link and know that this sheo is the coc, and those who didn't, wouldn't really know that there was anything significant about him knowing this stuff and would simply put it down to the usual mad ramblings of a madgod. Similarly they didn't include jyggalag.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:15 am

Well, yeah, but I'd rather that it will never be confirmed.

And it won't be. People who paid attention should have enough info to make their own decision, but the dialouge and story lean greatly at him actually being the CoC. But if you say that you don't have enough proof that's fine I guess, but I'm more of a person who likes to make connections and stick to them.

But anyway, whatever anyone thinks is right is completely moot because Bethesda has the last say and if they want to they can say the CoC was just a lunatic who pranced around in a dress all day and picked flowers. And maybe they'll even say he had a beard.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:51 am

I said this a few days ago, but you can't really say the CoC is Sheogorath unless you also say CoC is Listen of the Dark Brotherhood, Grey Fox, Arch Mage, and Guildmaster of the Fighter's Guild. And the Divine Crusader. Which means CoC is someone who according to lore, completed every singe quest. Which simply isn't true for most people, especially RPers who make good or evil characters.

The only truth is that all of those events happened. Those guild lines, and becoming Sheogorath. If you played a pure good guy who didn't become Sheogorath and promote torture, then it's not CoC. Someone else during that era might have wandered in and became Sheogorath.

This sounds valid.

However Sheogorath is not Jyggalag, not anymore and that's certain.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:54 am

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/468612597616394644/8565A3FCD2E523F62395EE61D20DEDDE486E9BE6/
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/468612597616391389/94D447B503DC5ADF04013CAC79A37062792B7A24/

Note he says he was there for that. CoC is Sheogorath.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:55 am

You know looking back on him, this Sheo actually looks a lot like my coc

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:13 am

Someone who was directly involved in the oblivion crisis throughout the whole ordeal and witnessed martin becoming an avatar of akatosh. Skyrim Sheo mentioned both of these things.

Anyway I think people are taking this way too seriously. Notice how they didn't give TOO much info on him, this meant that those who played SI would realise the link and know that this sheo is the coc, and those who didn't, wouldn't really know that there was anything significant about him knowing this stuff and would simply put it down to the usual mad ramblings of a madgod. Similarly they didn't include jyggalag.

He said he was there for it, which could just mean he was someone from that time period who entered SI when the gate opened. He didn't necessarily have to be standing right next to him, or doing all his fetch quests.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:51 am

And it won't be. People who paid attention should have enough info to make their own decision, but the dialouge and story lean greatly at him actually being the CoC. But if you say that you don't have enough proof that's fine I guess, but I'm more of a person who likes to make connections and stick to them.

I'm not saying there's no proof just that it isn't definite, which is good since if Bethesda said that Sheogorath is CoC then I'll feel compelled to make my CoC the Sheogorath, which he is not in my game.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:51 am

all i know is i won this arguement. whether the non believers like it or not. lol non believers i feel like stan lee

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:28 pm

He said he was there for it, which could just mean he was someone from that time period who entered SI when the gate opened. He didn't necessarily have to be standing right next to him, or doing all his fetch quests.

That's a long stretch to explain something that is actually explained by playing the game and its expansion.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:51 am

all i know is i won this arguement. whether the non believers like it or not. lol non believers i feel like stan lee

Way too cocky, Acolyte. Waaaaaaayyyyyy to cocky.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:06 am

They don't mean to be biased, but for the whole thing they have going there, they need to have had the CoC go through everything because they have to supply information for every little bit of the game. They need to say that the CoC did everything in order to tell the outcome of every quest, because if he didn't thenhow ould they kno that's what happened?

I have taken this very issue up with the people of the UESP and it is clear they are not interesting in what can be proven and what is conjecture.
They are interested in their own fan explanations and in presenting that as fact.
They even went so far as to delete my questioning of the practice because it was 'not productive', and that shows they arent even interested in debate.
The UESP should never be used for lore, it is unreliable.

It is the best source for gameplay information though.
For lore, go to the http://www.imperial-library.info/

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:37 pm

And it won't be. People who paid attention should have enough info to make their own decision, but the dialouge and story lean greatly at him actually being the CoC. But if you say that you don't have enough proof that's fine I guess, but I'm more of a person who likes to make connections and stick to them.

But anyway, whatever anyone thinks is right is completely moot because Bethesda has the last say and if they want to they can say the CoC was just a lunatic who pranced around in a dress all day and picked flowers. And maybe they'll even say he had a beard.

LMAO too funny.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:49 am

Oblivion didn't have half of the make or break choices that Skyrim had. When you played Oblivion, you either bought the expansion or you didn't. If you didn't, you missed out on story that the writers made. This doesn't mean that because you chose not to play it, that it didn't happen. That's the single most selfish stance I've seen taken.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:52 am

That's a long stretch to explain something that is actually explained by playing the game and its expansion.

Not saying he isn't CoC, just that his former identity isn't crystal clear.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:37 am

Way too cocky, Acolyte. Waaaaaaayyyyyy to cocky.

i meant with my girlfriend. she was pissed

in a good way. if there is a good way to be pissed. shes complicated lol

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:22 am

I have taken this very issue up with the people of the UESP and it is clear they are not interesting in what can be proven and what is conjecture.
They are interested in their own fan explanations and in presenting that as fact.
They even went so far as to delete my questioning of the practice because it was 'not productive', and that shows they arent even interested in debate.
The UESP should never be used for lore, it is unreliable.

It is the best source for gameplay information though.
For lore, go to the http://www.imperial-library.info/

Maybe not in-game lore, but a lot of their information about OTHER gods is pretty solid. I admit, it pretty much is the same few people with the same beliefs sitting in a corner together and don't go here because they are scared of opposite opinions, but they do reference the Imperial Library a lot, and sometimes I want a simple explanation of who God X is or what event Y was, and not a whole book of information about every detail of everything.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:07 am

Saying that the CoC isn't Sheogorath because not everyone chose to be him is like saying Martin didn't become Akatosh and seal oblivion because some people chose not to do the main quest.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:14 am

Oblivion didn't have half of the make or break choices that Skyrim had. When you played Oblivion, you either bought the expansion or you didn't. If you didn't, you missed out on story that the writers made. This doesn't mean that because you chose not to play it, that it didn't happen. That's the single most selfish stance I've seen taken.

That has nothing to do with anything.
All we can say for certain is that these events happened, and that the events related directly to the main quest are feats performed by the titular hero.
When it comes to Shivering Isles, that portal was an open invition, and Sheogorath dialogue in Skyrim hints that he was present for some events during the time of Oblivion, but that only means that someone went through that portal.
There is no indication to take as fact that this was the CoC, it could have been anyone.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:47 am

i meant with my girlfriend. she was pissed :smile:

in a good way. if there is a good way to be pissed. shes complicated lol

There are two ways to argue with a woman my friend, and neither of them work. :turned:

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:06 am

That has nothing to do with anything.
All we can say for certain is that these events happened, and that the events related directly to the main quest are feats performed by the titular hero.
When it comes to Shivering Isles, that portal was an open invition, and Sheogorath dialogue in Skyrim hints that he was present for some events during the time of Oblivion, but that only means that someone went through that portal.
There is no indication to take as fact that this was the CoC, it could have been anyone.

Okay, he has a point here. My main became master of the Fighters Guild, Grandchampion, beat the game, was the Divine Crusader, and became Sheogorath. But he never touched any other MAIN faction quests. THose were left to my other characters who didn't do any of the things my main did, and I always used to imagine they all happened in the same Elder Scroll.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:22 am

That has nothing to do with anything.
All we can say for certain is that these events happened, and that the events related directly to the main quest are feats performed by the titular hero.
When it comes to Shivering Isles, that portal was an open invition, and Sheogorath dialogue in Skyrim hints that he was present for some events during the time of Oblivion, but that only means that someone went through that portal.
There is no indication to take as fact that this was the CoC, it could have been anyone.

But we know differently. We know because we experienced the content. We were the CoC. We went through the portal and we defeated Jyggylag, taking the throne and ruling the realm. And now that we see Sheogorath in Skyrim, it's not only poignantly clear, it's painfully obvious that the CoC is Sheogorath.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:14 am

Saying that the CoC isn't Sheogorath because not everyone chose to be him is like saying Martin didn't become Akatosh and seal oblivion because some people chose not to do the main quest.

Yes, you're right it doesn't mean that SI didn't happen, but it doesn't have to be the CoC. He said that he was there on the oblivion crisis that could be anyone, he can be Savlian Matius, he can be Jauffre, he can be Baurus, etc, everyone that was there on oblivion crisis is plausible.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:23 am

But we know differently. We know because we experienced the content. We were the CoC. We went through the portal and we defeated Jyggylag, taking the throne and ruling the realm. And now that we see Sheogorath in Skyrim, it's not only poignantly clear, it's painfully obvious that the CoC is Sheogorath.

As I said, it is likely and plausible.
But it should not be seen as fact.
TES lore simply does not work that way. There is a certain amount of ambiguity involved in everything.
All we can say for certain is that these events happened, not who they happened to.
If the CoC had chosen not to go through that portal, it likely would have been someone else.
And that is the point, we simply dont know to any degree of certainty.

How the game plays is in this completely irrelevant, as the game is not the world.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:57 am

But we know differently. We know because we experienced the content. We were the CoC. We went through the portal and we defeated Jyggylag, taking the throne and ruling the realm. And now that we see Sheogorath in Skyrim, it's not only poignantly clear, it's painfully obvious that the CoC is Sheogorath.

Yeah, but for some people that wasn't their main that did that and our mains are the ones that we imagine to have actually been the CoC.