Skyrim no longer fun, skill 100

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:21 am

Interesting. I don't think I will ever run into this problem.
You might want to change your mindset and approach to this game.
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lolli
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:49 am

I disagree. Character stat progression (Which is what is being discussed in this thread) doesn't make the game. It's part of the game. Part of the whole. But it is not the whole. Not that difficult of a concept to grasp. :smile:

I am talking as a whole. You have itemization, stat progression, skill progression, and level progression. Levels in and of themselves do not really matter in TES outside of the fact that they are the only way to increase your stats. Skills and Perks are an entirely separate system, however awkwardly dictate level progression. Traditionally, Levels dictate gear availabilities, skill availabilities, and stat progression. In TES, skill progression dictates stat progression. An RPG game without itemization, state progression, skill progression, and level progression is not an RPG, despite there being a cool story to go along with it. It is about character development, I am not mentioning the other side of it which is story progression as this is a given in an RPG and pretty much ALL games now. I find Skyrim's storyline progression to be unengaging on its own. The way itemization works is silly to boot. It is a static system instead of a dynamic scaling one. Skills (perks) are a novel idea, but they need to be reworked to allow for more customization and specialization, which currently they do not. The Perk system promotes players to dabble in many different pools. There is no real sacrifice and no real sense of satisfaction since most of the top tier abilities are by and large - worthless.

That is what makes the game. This is called the core mechanics of the game, just like how you have combat mechanics and dialog options. If you take a step back, you will see the core of the game is very weak, but it does have a pretty face. Unfortunately, for me and many others the pretty girl doesn't have much of a personality and runs out of things to talk about real quick so you have to make conversation with yourself and pretend like she is saying things....
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Emily Graham
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:19 am

There are more skills involving magic than Destruction (though that is my favorite); expand your horizons, along with your girlfriend. She can still be a warrior and level up. Use Conjuration and tell your girlfriend to try out sword and board
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Umpyre Records
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:49 am

I think that this actually illustrates an interesting paradox inherent in open world games. The content outlasts your character’s development. You could argue that it takes multiple characters to experience all the content on offer, but that denies the entire point of a sandbox game, which you are by design entitled to play however you please. I have no idea how to design a game with infinite character progression and infinite content that is both rewarding and engrossing. It seems like at least one aspect has to be finite for the other to have any meaning

It is actually really simple. Levels are relative and so is gear. As you level, new tiers of gear will drop with augmented stats. You might run out of models you can use, which is why models are generally reused and recolored as this adds a lot more options with minimal work. Mass Effect (not ME2) did this quite well. Even on my second playthrough, I was still getting upgrades of weapons and armor. Likewise, you simply have enemies scale off of your level proportionately. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? It is actually EASIER to implement this system into an open world game than a static one where enemies and content levels are pre determined.
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Kelly Upshall
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:41 am

It is actually really simple. Levels are relative and so is gear. As you level, new tiers of gear will drop with augmented stats. You might run out of models you can use, which is why models are generally reused and recolored as this adds a lot more options with minimal work. Mass Effect (not ME2) did this quite well. Even on my second playthrough, I was still getting upgrades of weapons and armor. Likewise, you simply have enemies scale off of your level proportionately. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? It is actually EASIER to implement this system into an open world game than a static one where enemies and content levels are pre determined.
I think I didn’t express myself clearly. The paradox comes from the fact that you cannot have infinite character and world progression. But the introduction of infinite content in to the world (Radiant Quests) requires the implementation of some type of infinite character progression or reward system. Because otherwise half of the game's mechanics become meaningless after you have hit the level cap. This is more of a theoretical dilemma then any kind of practical concern because the endless content is just everlasting repetition of simple quests, but it does create an interesting dilemma for balancing the importance of character vs. world in an open world game.
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butterfly
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:17 pm



if you want to argue skill caps based on logic, there should be none. The rate that you gain skill levels should slow down considerably however the higher you get. No true cap.
Its difficult to say, imo when an athlete reachs there peak skill and performace its hardenough to keep it steady and not degrade let alone continue to build up.
In game, with your gaining of hp, stamina or magica being linked to lvl up, ever lasting lvl up would gain you even more than your already demi god status, not needed.
Whats needed is just more exp per lvl up for skills, you can lvl crafting in a few sittings if you save up loads of stuff with ease.
I think its fine for characters to have limits. maybe a skill spread would be better so you can only be good at so much, like the perk limit. So insted of limiting skill lvl up to 100 they stopped main lvling at 100 level ups. Then if you wished to you rp a destruction mage or swords man with a really high main skill level but youd be unable to level all skills up.

Dont know its difficult to build a suitable system that emulates such a subjective matter as becoming exsperienced, thats suits everyone perceived veiw of such and yet remains practical in a gamie sence.
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Nick Tyler
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:37 am

Alteration, destruction, are @100. I like to buff my self up then blow my enemy away, now i [have to] play another way or i will not lvl???

Fine if im the only one that will have to say this is not right, i'll be that guy..

Just so hopefully maybe the next elder scrolls won't be this way,
i'll gladly be the 1 and only stormcloak.

You are not the only one.

The leveling system is fundamentally flawed. I'm still having tons of fun, but so far, I haven't reached this ceiling on any of my characters. I'm also very much enjoying the story and the beauty of the world. I don't see this as a critically dire issue. It won't stop you from enjoying the game, but I think it will eventually have significant effects on replayablility, at least for me.
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Stacyia
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:39 am

I feel that high skill levels grant you too much bonus. Like, I'm opening every lock in the game with no penalties whatsoever without having spent a single point in it. Same with speechcraft. All I do is sell a lot of stuff and my speech climbs rather dramatically and so far every intimidation (?) attempt have been successful - without a single perk in it. At high skill levels (combined with perks and a single crafting skill) makes you a god at high levels, and the game becomes boring.

Let the 100 cap persist, but impossible to reach (play for years to get there - continous grinding). Let the skill level to 50 at half the speed it currently reaches 100 (exponential growth rate), but let us have all the perks at 50. Above 50, the skill no longer contributes to overall leveling, but it still continues to rise granting you the skill bonus from it. You continue to use the skill, and benefit by higher modifiers, but knowing how the growth rate works, nobody will ever pursue 100 which is to me a ridiculous value. Only in TES have I not only gotten 100 in anything, but even 100 in many things - and not by deliberately grinding for it but as a result of my playstyle.

I'm sick of this "need to maximize" mentality - so make it impossible to do.
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Tessa Mullins
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:44 am

In fallout u gained exp for simply completing a quest...

Any1 else feel its kinda i don't know odd?? that a ranger will no longer lvl up for completing quest or anything by using the technique they specialize in???

Or a sword and shield war will just stop gaining lvls as soon as their sword and skill hit 100??

From that moment on just no more experience or lvls no matter how many dragons they kill????

I don't know i really think we need sum type of experience just for killing mobs or completing quests.

This was that they thought of then making Daggerfall, you get better at lockpicking by picking locks not by killing bandits.

Worst case example, in Fallout 3 I wanted to hack an computer as part of an quest in a robot factory however my science skill was to low, however I was close to leveling up so I went downtown and killed supermutants for five minutes so I could raise my science skill, yes it makes sense :o)
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yessenia hermosillo
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:04 pm

Levels in and of themselves do not really matter in TES outside of the fact that they are the only way to increase your stats.

That's a funny thing to say considering that levels do in fact matter outside of increasing your stats. Two words. Level scaling. This includes scaled weapons and armor. Scaled enemies. For example, certain enemies and items only appear if you are of appropriate level.

Skills and Perks are an entirely separate system, however awkwardly dictate level progression.

How are they an entirely separate system? They're intertwined, hardly separate in my opinion. You're splitting hairs here, really.

Traditionally, Levels dictate gear availabilities, skill availabilities, and stat progression. In TES, skill progression dictates stat progression.

Like I said previously, Levels in TES do dictate item and skill availability. Furthermore, they also do dictate skill availabilities in a sense and they definitely dictate stat progression. Now it might not be all mixed in the traditional formula, but it's there, no doubt about it.

An RPG game without itemization, state progression, skill progression, and level progression is not an RPG, despite there being a cool story to go along with it.

There's many different ways to define an RPG. Potato tomato.

The way itemization works is silly to boot. It is a static system instead of a dynamic scaling one.

It would be nice if people knew what they were talking about before they decide to speak publicly.

Skills (perks) are a novel idea, but they need to be reworked to allow for more customization and specialization, which currently they do not.

I disagree.

The Perk system promotes players to dabble in many different pools. There is no real sacrifice and no real sense of satisfaction since most of the top tier abilities are by and large - worthless.

If it was as doom and gloom as you pretend it is, then why are there character builders available on the web? Surely nearly everything can be improved upon to some degree, but one must have realistic expectations. You can't expect for there to be over 1 billion perks all with 1 billion unique characteristics because that's just unrealistic expectations.

If you take a step back, you will see the core of the game is very weak, but it does have a pretty face.

I disagree. The core is very strong. It's just some people can't be pleased. They want more and more and more. If you were to live up to the expectations of some of the folks here, you'd have a game that would never be released. Ever. A game whom's budget would be more money than that of the whole world combined. Skyrim delivers more than enough, by and large. However, you can't please everyone. People will continue to say "I WANT MORE - MORE - MORE!!!".
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Angelina Mayo
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:30 am

Its difficult to say, imo when an athlete reachs there peak skill and performace its hardenough to keep it steady and not degrade let alone continue to build up.
In game, with your gaining of hp, stamina or magica being linked to lvl up, ever lasting lvl up would gain you even more than your already demi god status, not needed.
Whats needed is just more exp per lvl up for skills, you can lvl crafting in a few sittings if you save up loads of stuff with ease.
I think its fine for characters to have limits. maybe a skill spread would be better so you can only be good at so much, like the perk limit. So insted of limiting skill lvl up to 100 they stopped main lvling at 100 level ups. Then if you wished to you rp a destruction mage or swords man with a really high main skill level but youd be unable to level all skills up.

Dont know its difficult to build a suitable system that emulates such a subjective matter as becoming exsperienced, thats suits everyone perceived veiw of such and yet remains practical in a gamie sence.

It is very easy. You keep the current system and have a declining system of skill ups. Higher you go past the SOFT CAP the longer it takes to reach each new skill level. Most players will never go very far past it and there becomes a point where raising your skills past a certain point takes so much time people either won't do it or can't. At the most this probably would mean you are leveling your primary skills to ~125. All this accounts for is the fact that some players may cap their skills well before they complete all the content. This allows players who want to keep, and still progress, with their player to do so without having to do something as silly as play their character differently than they were built.
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Sophie Miller
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:49 am

I really don't understand some people. Since when was the point of Skyrim leveling up? This isn't some MMO where you rush through all of the levels to the end for the "fun content" only to find that it's no more fun at all, the whole point of Skyrim is the journey there, the side quests and the exploration. If your skill's capped because that's all you use then so what? The quests, world and everything else is still there, it's no different at all. And considering the difficulty increases with your character for the most part it's not even a "progression" really.

The truth is that if you only play a game for leveling up one character in one skill then of course it's going to get boring sooner or later. That's why you don't play a game just for leveling up a character in one skill.
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Guinevere Wood
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:17 am

go to the main menu
hit new game
problem solved

Minds have been blown...
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BaNK.RoLL
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:37 am


I like to shoot bolts of lightning at peoples face.(don't u dare judge me >_>)

And now whenever i do a quest or simply just explore my entire playstyle no longer rewards me!

Ladies and gentlemen, the target audience.

My best piece of advice is to experience the game, rather than play it. The game isn't about leveling up, so I don't see how capped skills would hinder your desired playstyle of "shooting people in the face". Create your own goals that you feel are appropriately rewarding (whether artificial or not).
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GPMG
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:50 am

I disagree. The core is very strong. It's just some people can't be pleased. They want more and more and more. If you were to live up to the expectations of some of the folks here, you'd have a game that would never be released. Ever. A game whom's budget would be more money than that of the whole world combined. Skyrim delivers more than enough, by and large. However, you can't please everyone. People will continue to say "I WANT MORE - MORE - MORE!!!".

No. It isn't very strong. They have homogenized the series to a point where instead of cutting fat out they cut bone. They flat out amputated the series. Why did they do this? They try to make things easier for players to manage (cater to the lowest common denominator). I am not talking about "more more more" I am talking about a dynamic and scaling system of loot and levels. Currently they do not. They are static systems. That does not coincide with how the game is built. You cannot have an open world game and then make those mechanics static.

For example, Daedric might be the last "tier" of armor/weapons that is available - ok whatever I get that. The base damage of a Daedric dagger is 11. It does not matter if you find it or craft it at level 20, or 75. The dagger's base damage is 11. The only way to modify the damage is through enchants and smithing (which is governed by the skill system). You can only pump into that 100 points. After that, you rely on enchants and potions to take you over that cap.

I find that to be an enormous issue. I am never excited I find gear, because it is always the same. Once I find one Daedric dagger, the rest can be sold to vendors for Septims - get this - I have NO USE for!

Do you not see the problem with the current system?
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Connie Thomas
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:49 am

I really don't understand some people. Since when was the point of Skyrim leveling up? This isn't some MMO where you rush through all of the levels to the end for the "fun content" only to find that it's no more fun at all, the whole point of Skyrim is the journey there, the side quests and the exploration. If your skill's capped because that's all you use then so what? The quests, world and everything else is still there, it's no different at all. And considering the difficulty increases with your character for the most part it's not even a "progression" really.

The truth is that if you only play a game for leveling up one character in one skill then of course it's going to get boring sooner or later. That's why you don't play a game just for leveling up a character in one skill.

Why does Skyrim have levels or gear or perks at all then? In your example, it is all about "enjoying the experience". Would you be happy if there was no gear, no perks, or levels in Skyrim? Would it still be an RPG?
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Tyler F
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:10 am

No. It isn't very strong. They have homogenized the series to a point where instead of cutting fat out they cut bone. They flat out amputated the series. Why did they do this? They try to make things easier for players to manage (cater to the lowest common denominator). I am not talking about "more more more" I am talking about a dynamic and scaling system of loot and levels. Currently they do not. They are static systems. That does not coincide with how the game is built. You cannot have an open world game and then make those mechanics static.

For example, Daedric might be the last "tier" of armor/weapons that is available - ok whatever I get that. The base damage of a Daedric dagger is 11. It does not matter if you find it or craft it at level 20, or 75. The dagger's base damage is 11. The only way to modify the damage is through enchants and smithing (which is governed by the skill system). You can only pump into that 100 points. After that, you rely on enchants and potions to take you over that cap.

I find that to be an enormous issue. I am never excited I find gear, because it is always the same. Once I find one Daedric dagger, the rest can be sold to vendors for Septims - get this - I have NO USE for!

Do you not see the problem with the current system?

I'm not saying that the current system is perfect by any means, however, I don't necessarily have an issue with what you're arguing at this particular moment. If you've played any of the previous TES games, you'd know that they're all like this. No TES game has infinite dynamic gear. None. Not even Daggerfall.

This isn't an MMO where some folks want their next fix to go to X raid every day to get X gear over and over in a pointless zombie like state. If that's your game, then there's plenty of MMOs that will fill your thirst of pointless grinding and pointless progression.

I think the main issue here is you, to be honest. It's like going into a console FPS and expecting a PC text puzzle game. It's preposterous. This claim of cutting into the bone has no basis to stand on considering what you're describing was never a part of the series. NEVER... O.o
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bonita mathews
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:23 am



This was that they thought of then making Daggerfall, you get better at lockpicking by picking locks not by killing bandits.

Worst case example, in Fallout 3 I wanted to hack an computer as part of an quest in a robot factory however my science skill was to low, however I was close to leveling up so I went downtown and killed supermutants for five minutes so I could raise my science skill, yes it makes sense :o)
Its a little fun but no so bad, personaly i prefer the tes system over the fallout system but i have no issue with the fallout system, im happy that by simply thinking about an issue you can over come it, actions can speak louder than words but some times reading a book or stoping and thinking for 5 minutes is a good idea if dont have a [censored] clue about it.
As any action gains exp its still a valid system, i could pick alot of locks because my character loves to steal but he could be recless and not really have the paitence to learn he prefers killing stuff and looting, so i add lvls of exp to that insted. Or my characters maybe a thinker, he has full intelligence and has alot of skill point to give out because he over anolyses and thinks over past actions.
With rp imo its not so much about predefining things but sculpting them as you go, given the tools you have.
tools: skyrim
100 lvl cap, sorry its a rule, problem is you like progression, solution is rp:
Example, your 2h fighter suffered a shoulder injury and now lacks reach with out exstream pain in the left shoulder, so he desides to protect it using a sheild and do the swinging with just his right. Now, he still carrys his trusty claymore, just incase, but its a strain so he can only do it for short times.
So you can keep the level ups by rocking sword and board and keep your favorite freash by only using it on boss/dragon/ect. If you dont like this maybe difficult to over come without play on pc where you can define alot more through moding your game.
In a rp game after all just treating it as a grinder is not the way forth imo, because of course it ends when you reach the max lvl as thats all youve strived to do.
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tiffany Royal
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:02 am

expand your horizons, along with your girlfriend.
Feed her horker stew maybe.
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Marie Maillos
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:02 am

@KNOCK KNOCK not difficult at all fallout nv proves that.

Simply allow experience to be gained by completing quest, and finding new locations. (which encourages exploring btw)
***[Or in skyrim system case allow all the damage skill trees to last u till lvl cap raise them high enough so u can specialize with one and reach lvl cap(this way u will not >have to< drop your playstyle in order to lvl up, and will encourage even more careful planning of how good do u wanna be with your primary skill???..]***

If sum1 wants to be completely awesome at destruction magic and not good with other stuff it should be there [choice]..

As the destruction lady told me in the college of winterhold,
"u have to make a choice u either wanna be really really great at something or average at a few things, beware focusing entirely on one skill may give u a disadvantage if your ememy is immune to wat u are good at."

However there is no be A+ at this and C at everything else..because using my destruction magic will not even gain me lvl ups anymore....

All im saying is i would like the option to use destruction magic and hit lvl cap..
I would like for a ranger to not hit 100 acrhery @30 and then be [forced] to use another means to kill a mob in order to lvl...

Then u can be the C at alot of stuff or A++ at watever you want..

The choice should be there and its not if u have to [do something else] or [start over] that is all im saying...
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Nick Swan
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:30 am

@KNOCK KNOCK not difficult at all fallout nv proves that.

Simply allow experience to be gained by completing quest, and finding new locations. (which encourages exploring btw)
***[Or in skyrim system case allow all the damage skill trees to last u till lvl cap raise them high enough so u can specialize with one and reach lvl cap(this way u will not >have to< drop your playstyle in order to lvl up, and will encourage even more careful planning of how good do u wanna be with your primary skill???..]***

If sum1 wants to be completely awesome at destruction magic and not good with other stuff it should be there [choice]..

As the destruction lady told me in the college of winterhold,
"u have to make a choice u either wanna be really really great at something or average at a few things, beware focusing entirely on one skill may give u a disadvantage if your ememy is immune to wat u are good at."

However there is no be A+ at this and C at everything else..because using my destruction magic will not even gain me lvl ups anymore....

All im saying is i would like the option to use destruction magic and hit lvl cap..
I would like for a ranger to not hit 100 acrhery @30 and then be [forced] to use another means to kill a mob in order to lvl...

Then u can be the C at alot of stuff or A++ at watever you want..

The choice should be there and its not if u have to [do something else] or [start over] that is all im saying...

So Skyrim is your first Elder Scrolls game? You seem to be confusing The Elder Scrolls series with the Fallout series post Bethesda.
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Connor Wing
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:50 am

I don't get it. With so many options, why play a one-trick-pony? So your favorite skill is maxed out. What about the others? Sorry pal, but if you want a narrow experience like that, Skyrim may just not be the right game for you.
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Charleigh Anderson
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:26 am

TES games always work through raising skills rather than having raw xp from quests. This is just their design philosophy. If you rescue the farmer's cow, you don't get better at Destruction magic. That is an abstract D&D mechanic designed for pen and paper that they threw out. You get better at Destruction by using it. End of story, it will never change.

As for why it has a cap, as has been said it is for balancing the game. Besides which, all the skill does is reduce the Magicka cost. When it gets down to zero, you have a de facto cap. It can't be avoided.

My thief has a Sneak of 100. He never gets any more "xp" though he sneaks all the time. Why would I care? He is very good at sneaking, and that is the only point of the skill. I don't feel any sense of "punishment".

If you have a normal amount of skills, say 5 to 8, you have easily enough perks to create a powerful character. You are artificially restricting yourself to a minority playstyle if you only use one or two skills, and can't reasonably expect the devs to cater to you.
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Adam Baumgartner
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:43 am

Why does Skyrim have levels or gear or perks at all then? In your example, it is all about "enjoying the experience". Would you be happy if there was no gear, no perks, or levels in Skyrim? Would it still be an RPG?

Exactly how did you get from "The game isn't meant to played leveling one character in one skill to "Skills, Perks and gear doesn't matter"?

Of course enjoying the experience is the most important thing. The most important thing in a game is having fun, not fiddling around with pages of numbers or using the same ability over and over to level up. If you think that those are more important than actually enjoying the game then I think you need a new hobby.

And to be incredibly blunt, I couldn't care less if the game can be called a "RPG" or not. Throwing around labels like they actually mean something is stupid. In my experience, most of the people fussing about anything to do with "RPG" are self-entitled moaners blinded by nostalgia of old (and by modern standards, rubbish) games; who believe that any game must be completely rubbish if it isn't exactly the way they want it to be.
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Nikki Morse
 
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Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:38 am

I'm not saying that the current system is perfect by any means, however, I don't necessarily have an issue with what you're arguing at this particular moment. If you've played any of the previous TES games, you'd know that they're all like this. No TES game has infinite dynamic gear. None. Not even Daggerfall.

This isn't an MMO where some folks want their next fix to go to X raid every day to get X gear over and over in a pointless zombie like state. If that's your game, then there's plenty of MMOs that will fill your thirst of pointless grinding and pointless progression.

I think the main issue here is you, to be honest. It's like going into a console FPS and expecting a PC text puzzle game. It's preposterous. This claim of cutting into the bone has no basis to stand on considering what you're describing was never a part of the series. NEVER... O.o

The concept of scaling gear was not, however there were many more tiers of items, visual items, spells, STATS, climbing, etc. Not only was it not really feasible to implement then, but you had enough where you did not need it. Skyrim for all intents and purposes is extremely stripped down.

For weapons, I have to choose from Iron, Steel, Orcish, Dwarven, Elven, Glass, Ebony, and Daedric. That is a total of 8 weapons. Daedric, is the best meaning when I find it I have no options - that is it.
The only way to augment these is through Enchanting or Enchants. Enchants are very limited and do not offer much uniqueness to them.

You do not need to add something just because previous iterations had it in it or not add something because it did not. The series needs to evolve, I do not feel it has. Graphics wise sure. The rest of the game keeps getting cut back and parred down. Do you question that?
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evelina c
 
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