Not complete eye candy, but think back to warcraft 2 way back when, grphics were not that good, but they at least had some cg scenes. But the graphics for realt ime games like TES is now, need to be a little good at least to keep the flow of combat going.

Good physics are a bigger plus yes.

I would take a game with Morrowind graphics if it was loaded with more content over graphics any day of the week.

It can but yes like you said its only fan fiction.

I love Warcraft.

RIP

Warcraft

Its good to have I agree, but it should never be the main focus. I can live without CG as long as the story is told in a great and meaningful way in game.

Unfortunately, my friend, you're wrong there. The gaming community is pretty much made of graphics-[censored]s. I mean, did you see how many people bought Battlefield 3 and MW3 and were all "OMG LOOK AT THOSE REALISTIC GUNS, AND THE MAPS, SO REAL!" It was a LOT of people. 20 - 30% of the gaming community is more focused on story, yes, but if you told investors that your company would be aiming for that 20 - 30% they'd tell you to go check yourself into rehab because you had to be smoking something to aim for that crowd. Simply enough, the community did this to gaming. The companies did not do this, all they want is money. The community demanded games with better graphics, and the companies simply delivered.

Add in a good character development system(interaction and leveling) and I'm in.

Yes, more warcraft RTS's need to be made.

I have a feeling those games would be bashed by the "real" Warcraft RTS fans

I never got my hands on oblivion, but i did play morrowind. I was alot younger as you could imagine, and the game was good. But after a while it just didn't appeal to me as much as other games of the time. Not to say it was bad. Just at the time, I didn't go too in depth.

So, my opinion of Skyrim being a great and dynamic game, may be a bit bias. I can understand your pain. But think about this. The consoles are pretty old, and games are constantly getting better. But they can't surpass the threshold the consoles have set. Unfortunately, companies can't just leave out the consoles, to make great and very huge content games for the pc's. They would lose a huge market.

So until we get a "xbox 3" or "ps4", then i don't think games will advance much. This could result in it feeling stale, and also result in topics such as this being posted.

It could add features from that 20%-30%. But saying a percentile that big is nothing is insane. That percintile is in the tens of millions maybe more.
I know a huge part of the gaming community want the bang bang so pretty but that does not mean ignore part of a fanbase that could offer them millions of dollars in income.
I have been playing games for twenty years and it kills me that must just want 'pretty effects'. Yes I know the gaming community has grown very small minded in the ast several years they are mindless zombies.

I herald the day depth is added back into games, especially TES.

Skyrim only hits the console threshold because the developers were more concerned with "Oh, look at this shiny thing!" than they were with "Oh, look at this unique quest + dialogue!" If the developers had spent more of the game's substance on, pardon the vocabulary, actual substance rather than just flashy graphics, then the game would've easily been able to cram all the depth of Morrowind without hitting the consoles too hard. I mean, the game didn't have to have super-realistic graphics. I would've been fine with a Fallout: New Vegas balance (i.e. only slightly better graphics than Oblivion, but just as much content as Morrowind).

Yea statistically since your die hard isn't that like guaranteed sale already... lets face it Bethesda isnt gonna profit from just you guys. Your gonna take the graphical buff, and other fancy [censored]. with or with out. The majority wont, so why should they cater to you guys?
I feel like what they did from a marketable a stand point works, find something the die hards would like but would also appeal to the masses. More success means more games, and TES wont have to go the way of shenmue.

Same here.
Yes they do. I hope they do the series justice but as of this very moment and at the launch of WoW I think Warcraft is sadly dead.

Actually if you look at the business model, yes.

See, if you release a game that does not attract the older crowd, they will eventually stop buying the product. You will lose your loyal customers in the hope that they are replaced by new customers.

Who you then don't treat well, so you lose them too. Think about it. People thought Ob. was dumbed down compared to MW, and others thought Sk was dumbed down compared to Ob... Downward spiral.

In the meantime, although the amount of money you are making is going up, you keep losing customers. Your sales are entirely based on your ability to find new customers, without looking after the old.

Oh and don't forget that your ex-customers are now probably badmouthing your product. Instead of saying good things about it.

Sooner or later, something gives.


So to end that rather dire story: I have friends who are 17 and 18 who think that TES is a pointless and truly awful game. To an extent, I agree with them. The concerns they bring up are entirely valid, and are mine too. Besides that, I play it to relax and have a sight-see. I don't play it because I respect it as a game.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Consoles are the only thing that kept Beth in business after Morrowind, not the hardcoe fans although they did help a little bit.

Except that most of the die-hards are complaining about it. I get that they wanted the games to appeal to the masses, but when die-hard fans start eying Morrowind as an alternative to Skyrim then you know they've made one too many cuts.

The reason the games don't look amazing compared to other games is because it isn't on rails. It's an open world. You can go from Markarth to the border of Morrowind with zero loading screens. Games like Call of Duty or Battlefield or whatever will obviously look better because they have more scripting and have stages rather than worlds.

They should listen to want older players want, to make their games better.
What is wrong with added depth, nothing.
We could still have the fluff, with the content to match if this game was not rushed to the stupid 11-11-11 date.
From a marketable standpoint it worked because they built up this epic hype and people was floored by the dragons.
"OMG its dragons so pretty!"

Anyways more is more less is less, its not hard to find out how to do things in complicated games like Morrowind for instance, even Daggerfall which offered more than Morrowind.
This is at the point they have built a massive fan base with their flag ship series, its time to add instead of take away.

That's where the problem hit. Bethesda went the way of "the big company", which I understand. I love Bethesda, and I want them to succeed, but now they're shifting the way of Bioware and trying to appeal to the masses rather than their hardcoe fan base. I remember when Bethesda first came out with Morrowind and all my casual friends took one look at the game and puked. Now, they seem to enjoy Skyrim more than I do, which is sad because as a long time fan I feel like Bethesda dropped me and scooped up all my easily-impressed friends instead.

I disagree with this consoles have done very well for Bethesda. They will be able to invest more in future ES titles.

Beth hasn't gone the route of the EA's of the world, good grief you make Beth sound like they are the Devil. Skyrim is a lot deeper then any other game out there this year, easily beating any game within the RPG genre for this year and last year too (You can make an exception for New Vegas if it wasn't bugged to hell). Skyrim is still an amazing game and the series keeps improving, for us to go back to Morrowind now would be a huge step backwards, not forwards I don't want that combat system any where near Skyrim nor do I want an Attribute System that causes more problems then solutions.

I don't mean console sales, I mean console hardware limitations. One has to accept that, sooner or later, you have to stop packing stuff into your game because it'll destroy the console it's intended to ship on. The question isn't whether Skyrim maxed out the console threshold or not (it did) but whether it used the limits and boundaries wisely. IMO, Bethesda should've focused on maxing out the console threshold with quests and dialogue options, not super-realistic graphics.

Attributes needs to be retooled.

If we had Morrowinds feature set in Skyrim this game would be perfect without the bugs that riddle Skyrim of course.

I'm not asking to go back to the Morrowind game itself, merely the Morrowind style - where substance was hip and flash was bonus. Skyrim's style reeks of the idea that "flash is hip and substance is so 5 years ago". I don't hate Skyrim, it's a great game. It's just not the RPG I expected from Bethesda nor is it the kind of Elder Scrolls game I expected. What I expected was a deep, rich storyline with lovable characters and branching quests, in addition to nice graphics. What I got is a game that blew my eyes away graphically, but failed to impress storyline, dialogue, and quest-wise.

I do not know consoles always surprise you when you think they have been maxed out. Take Final Fantasy XII for example when that cam out it looked better than a lot of current gen game back then.

Bethesda needs the console sale to keep sailing out in deep waters if they did not have that they would sink very fast. I also play on console for now and I do not think it should be overlooked because they are the main selling points.

I agree with you on graphics they could have added so much content in general had they not focused on graphics.

Feature wise too.