Still No Patch? : Fallout: New Vegas

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:29 am

I have it on good authority that people are returning their game (All platforms, but less so on PS3) to stores in droves here in the UK. The stores involved (Game, Gamestation and many others) would be clearly involved and informing Zenimax of this. This could be why Bethesda/Obsidian are taking so long to fix this giant abortion of a game, they have contractual and financial reasons to get this fixed PROPERLY.

I wouldnt be surprised that the first DLC is delayed.

So any moron that says "it works for most people" with NO EVIDENCE is an over opinionated liar. Ignore them, and rant away. Its your right as a human being.

Lastly, incase some of you dont know, if anyone has Windows 7 and cant get the game to work, you are be eligible for a refund.
Despite being advertised on the boxed copy that its Windows 7 compatible, support officials from Bethesda/Obsidian have said that it is NOT compatible, meaning that the game is sold under a false pretense (Mis Selling of goods act here in the UK) and therefore by law, must be refunded

Videogame stores in the UK actually take games back after they've been opened? In the US, the major brick and mortar retailer is Gamestop. Once you break the seal on the game case, it's yours. I know there have been instances of Steam refunding purchases for customers (I've seen a few examples on reddit) but it was a different game/issue all together. I highly doubt they would refund the purchase price because a game was released in, what most would consider, an unacceptable state. I'll also go out on a limb and say it's why most US gamers are pissed off and ranting (rightfully so) on this forum. They advertise the hell out of it, spending enough cash to buy into the major review sites '7 to 10' scale to mislead gamers and lock you into preorders (Obviously, nobody is forcing you to preorder but it's just another way they svck you in). Then, the moment you crack the plastic seal, it's yours.

It's svcks? It's buggy? Well too bad, take it up with Obsidian...NEXT!

And do we see any of the major review sites following up on this mess? Nope, because Obsidian paid them enough advertising dollars to keep their lips sealed. Move along, our engine, scripting and coding is fine, there's nothing to see here. Nope, nobody forced me to buy the game. I'm a fan of the series. However, I do expect it to run properly when I purchase it (I don't expect any game to be perfect). Anyone who tells someone on the forum that they have no right to complain or to shutup is the reason why more games will be released in this condition. Stop acting like a bunch of passive, hindu cows and voice your frustrations. A passive attitude towards this stuff will only make things worse down the road. It's the same reason why the DLC market is even profitable. "Oh man, two bucks for a new hat! Count me in!"

Any Dragon Age Origins fan knows what I'm talking about.
NPCs in the game that take you right to a purchase screen to buy their "quest"? - Check

Lame excuse for why an inventory locker couldn't be included in the original release? - Check
Include it in a DLC as a "feature" that your customers have to pay for? - Check

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:36 am

I doubt they take back the PC version since its Steam activated, the moment you installed it and its authenticated its now yours as its connected to your account and can be re-installed by Steam.
Accepting returns of Steam games would be pretty much giving away the game for free, console games are a different matter but this is the PC forum after all.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:19 am

With regards to your defense of support, this is a recent occurrence of such responses that Im aware of, not something that was only stated in the first few weeks of release. This is relatively verifiable with some Googling and searching these very forums (If said posts havent been censored)

Droves, or "droves" as you sarcastically put it, means exactly that. Specific numbers arent needed in this case. Never in the time that these contacts have worked for such companies have they experienced and I quote "...so many people bringing back a game" and even include complaints saying, quote, "alot of (customers) who bring it back are saying they get the RRoD from it."

Something is clearly massively amiss.

Well obviously specific numbers aren't really needed when you're inventing a story like that. That's the beauty of fiction - you can be as vague as you want and as long as you don't use actual numbers or specific sources then you can allow your audience to maintain the suspension of disbelief necessary for an engrossing read. This would be particularly important in the UK for another reason- libel suits there historically favor the plaintiff for a number of reasons.

I mean you can at least understand how your claims come across as disingenuous even if you do not believe you are being deliberately dishonest. You managed to fit in almost all of the hallmark cliches from a tabloid conspiracy/scandal article. You've got reliable sources that nobody but you could possibly verify the existence of. You vaguely reference other posts while admitting they may or may not exist - and suggest their non-existence would merely be evidence of censorship. You use adjectives that emphasize the scale of returns while simultaneous arguing that the specific numbers are unimportant. You place your more dubious claims inside quotes and suggest they were said but unnamed other people. You manage to mirror the style so completely that it almost reads like satire.

To be serious for a second or two though, I'm sure you have genuine reasons to be angry about the state of your game. There are a great number of seriously game breaking bugs that one can encounter beyond basic stability issues. There are plenty of honest complaints that one can make about the game; this does not include the patently false assertion that a game is ever what causes a system to get the RRoD. Yes you did put quotes around it to emphasize that some unknown other person said it - which only makes repeating it that much more obviously dishonest on your part.

*Sigh*

I know I'm just feeding the troll but:

- The game has a lot of bugs and does need a significant patch relatively soon.
- The QA process should have been more thorough for the purpose of detecting scripting bugs and included more diverse hardware configurations to improve stability.
- There are people who are justifiably upset about this.
- Anger from people who have had consistent stability issues or run into scripting error and glitch one after another is perfectly understandable and should be expected.
- A non-zero number of copies of the game have been returned (almost statistically certain given the number sold)
- "It works fine for me so it can't be the game" is not helpful

BUT

- There is no conspiracy to conceal the presence of bugs
- Most major sites' reviews dedicated significant portions of the text to mention these bugs and caution people about them
- An unnamed and un-cited reliable source is a little paradoxical.
- The game continues to sell well and has even seen an uptick in weekly sales this past week (as should have been expected for the holiday season)
- However many people are returning the game is not significant enough to garner mention on major sites (even those that gave poor reviews of the game) nor have they put a dent in sales*
- There are more hits on big and google about customers demanding refunds for the latest call of duty game than for fallout new vegas. Heck even searching specifically for people demanding refunds for fallout new vegas I still found more hits about people demanding refunds of other games (sites were returned as hits because they also had separate unrelated new vegas articles.)
- "It doesn't work for me so the game is garbage" is actually less ridiculous than the anolgous statement above even if it is a broad generalization but should always be accompanied by helpful details about exactly how it does not work for you and maybe a DXDIAG output for good measure. Now the reason I say it's less ridiculous is because it makes sense for someone who is having deeply frustrating issues with the game to post a broad negative opinion. I just suggest putting in more information so you can get helpful responses and provide information to the patch team while simultaneously avoiding being flamed by people who feel compelled to let you know how great the game is working on their system.

Please keep the complaints honest. As I said there is plenty to complain about and there are enough real bugs to report that you don't have to invent a mass rush to return the game to retailers or mention a fallacious link between ANY game and the Xbox RRoD issue. That just comes across as a bit too desperate and won't be any help getting the game fixed properly. And no, a lot of this was not directed at any one person. I also realize that I am somewhat ranting about ranting. Not so suggest I'm not a giant hypocrite, but I would like to think I am protecting the purity of ranting. I would not like to see my cherished medium polluted by incorporating aspects of short-form fiction. Ranting only requires anger, truth, and a willingness to shamelessly abuse a thesaurus.

* http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/33663/fallout-new-vegas/
*http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/uk/archive/index_test.jsp&ct=110032&arch=t&lyr=2010&year=2010&week=47

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:28 pm

Hell I can't even launch the bloody game due to Steam errors (Tip:- Bethesda next game have an option of straight install without [censored]ting Steam, and yes I am a little angry about this) one thing is for sure next time you launch a game you are very unlikely to see high sales figures after you have had our money and left us with this pile of crap (5,000,000 sales? that's 5,000,000 very unsatisfied gamers) none of us will buy untill we know you have actually got it right - [censored] I would have been better off throwing my money away at least I would have no-one to blame but myself!

Well obviously specific numbers aren't really needed when you're inventing a story like that. That's the beauty of fiction - you can be as vague as you want and as long as you don't use actual numbers or specific sources then you can allow your audience to maintain the suspension of disbelief necessary for an engrossing read. This would be particularly important in the UK for another reason- libel suits there historically favor the plaintiff for a number of reasons.

I mean you can at least understand how your claims come across as disingenuous even if you do not believe you are being deliberately dishonest. You managed to fit in almost all of the hallmark cliches from a tabloid conspiracy/scandal article. You've got reliable sources that nobody but you could possibly verify the existence of. You vaguely reference other posts while admitting they may or may not exist - and suggest their non-existence would merely be evidence of censorship. You use adjectives that emphasize the scale of returns while simultaneous arguing that the specific numbers are unimportant. You place your more dubious claims inside quotes and suggest they were said but unnamed other people. You manage to mirror the style so completely that it almost reads like satire.

To be serious for a second or two though, I'm sure you have genuine reasons to be angry about the state of your game. There are a great number of seriously game breaking bugs that one can encounter beyond basic stability issues. There are plenty of honest complaints that one can make about the game; this does not include the patently false assertion that a game is ever what causes a system to get the RRoD. Yes you did put quotes around it to emphasize that some unknown other person said it - which only makes repeating it that much more obviously dishonest on your part.

*Sigh*

I know I'm just feeding the troll but:

- The game has a lot of bugs and does need a significant patch relatively soon.
- The QA process should have been more thorough for the purpose of detecting scripting bugs and included more diverse hardware configurations to improve stability.
- There are people who are justifiably upset about this.
- Anger from people who have had consistent stability issues or run into scripting error and glitch one after another is perfectly understandable and should be expected.
- A non-zero number of copies of the game have been returned (almost statistically certain given the number sold)
- "It works fine for me so it can't be the game" is not helpful

BUT

- There is no conspiracy to conceal the presence of bugs
- Most major sites' reviews dedicated significant portions of the text to mention these bugs and caution people about them
- An unnamed and un-cited reliable source is a little paradoxical.
- The game continues to sell well and has even seen an uptick in weekly sales this past week (as should have been expected for the holiday season)
- However many people are returning the game is not significant enough to garner mention on major sites (even those that gave poor reviews of the game) nor have they put a dent in sales*
- There are more hits on big and google about customers demanding refunds for the latest call of duty game than for fallout new vegas. Heck even searching specifically for people demanding refunds for fallout new vegas I still found more hits about people demanding refunds of other games (sites were returned as hits because they also had separate unrelated new vegas articles.)
- "It doesn't work for me so the game is garbage" is actually less ridiculous than the anolgous statement above even if it is a broad generalization but should always be accompanied by helpful details about exactly how it does not work for you and maybe a DXDIAG output for good measure. Now the reason I say it's less ridiculous is because it makes sense for someone who is having deeply frustrating issues with the game to post a broad negative opinion. I just suggest putting in more information so you can get helpful responses and provide information to the patch team while simultaneously avoiding being flamed by people who feel compelled to let you know how great the game is working on their system.

Please keep the complaints honest. As I said there is plenty to complain about and there are enough real bugs to report that you don't have to invent a mass rush to return the game to retailers or mention a fallacious link between ANY game and the Xbox RRoD issue. That just comes across as a bit too desperate and won't be any help getting the game fixed properly. And no, a lot of this was not directed at any one person. I also realize that I am somewhat ranting about ranting. Not so suggest I'm not a giant hypocrite, but I would like to think I am protecting the purity of ranting. I would not like to see my cherished medium polluted by incorporating aspects of short-form fiction. Ranting only requires anger, truth, and a willingness to shamelessly abuse a thesaurus.

* http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/33663/fallout-new-vegas/
*http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/uk/archive/index_test.jsp&ct=110032&arch=t&lyr=2010&year=2010&week=47

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:32 pm

sales of goods and services act 1982 UK customers are covered by UK law

Hell I can't even launch the bloody game due to Steam errors (Tip:- Bethesda next game have an option of straight install without [censored]ting Steam, and yes I am a little angry about this) one thing is for sure next time you launch a game you are very unlikely to see high sales figures after you have had our money and left us with this pile of crap (5,000,000 sales? that's 5,000,000 very unsatisfied gamers) none of us will buy untill we know you have actually got it right - [censored] I would have been better off throwing my money away at least I would have no-one to blame but myself!

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:58 am

The complaining and flaming of one another will do nothing to expedite the patch or deter this behavior (meaning the release of software before it is ready). The only effective response available to us as consumers is to refuse to buy products from developers that show a pattern of negligence and/or incompetence. Obsidian has a long record of this kind of thing. In all fairness, release schedules are largely out of the hands of developers. However, developers should realize this and plan accordingly by hiring appropriate staff and setting realistic milestones. Obsidian has repeatedly failed to show this capacity as a developer - not only do they continue to enter into developer-publisher relationships that dictate release schedules that have nothing to do with the readiness of the game, but they have failed again and again to respond to the challenges of game development under such a relationship.

As consumers, it is the proper response to not purchase software from publishers like Obsidian so that the free market will drive them to change - or to disappear.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:16 am

....one thing is for sure next time you launch a game you are very unlikely to see high sales figures after you have had our money and left us with this pile of crap (5,000,000 sales? that's 5,000,000 very unsatisfied gamers) none of us will buy untill we know you have actually got it right - [censored] I would have been better off throwing my money away at least I would have no-one to blame but myself!

That's 5,000,000 shipped, not sold, but even if you had the correct number of sold copies, you'd still be way off. I am not unsatisfied! I know I am not alone either.

I will happily buy the next TES/Fallout game the day they are released. I'll buy the PC versions as per usual, so I can fix/workaround any issues that arise. (Or download/use another community members fix/workaround.)

I'll be very surprised if the patch does not come out by the end of next week.

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:35 pm

And I'll very happily read the next bunch of forums filled with complaints

That's 5,000,000 shipped, not sold, but even if you had the correct number of sold copies, you'd still be way off. I am not unsatisfied! I know I am not alone either.

I will happily buy the next TES/Fallout game the day they are released. I'll buy the PC versions as per usual, so I can fix/workaround any issues that arise. (Or download/use another community members fix/workaround.)

I'll be very surprised if the patch does not come out by the end of next week.

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:43 pm

As consumers, it is the proper response to not purchase software from publishers like Obsidian so that the free market will drive them to change - or to disappear.

The fear, of course, is that the "free market" will interpret that as a condemnation of the game styles, not of the bugs, and end our chances of getting great games like Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas ever again.

I can wait for patches in order to support games I enjoy.

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:29 pm

And I'll very happily read the next bunch of forums filled with complaints

Have fun with that. I'll be there trying to help as always. I'll also be happily playing the game/s. :nod:

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:21 am

With 100% certainty I will say that without any insider knowledge whatsoever that we will see a patch within the next 16 days. Because that is when the 360 DLC comes out

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:30 am

Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:17 PM "We’re currently running final testing and certification"
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1123616-game-updates/page__view__findpost__p__16635439

05 November.....FINAL testing......now we have 05 december....still FINAL testing haha??
only ridiculous the empty words from the devs...

i think not only the final testing blabla one full month ago was just propaganda, the entire "comprehensive update" blaba was also just propaganda and all they really release soon is a small update for the new dlc achievements, exactly like they did already with fallout 3!

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:22 am

I've stopped playing FO:NV weeks ago. Although I experienced only one CTD, I noticed a lot of quest bugs, so I decided to wait until the 'big' patch. I want to play the game as it was meant to be played, not as the bugs force me to play it.
In the meantime, I started Red Faction Guerillia; another great open world game. Gameplay is a bit repetitive though, compared to Fallout. Now where's my patch...? :snoring:

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:28 am

I've stopped playing FO:NV weeks ago. Although I experienced only one CTD, I noticed a lot of quest bugs, so I decided to wait until the 'big' patch. I want to play the game as it was meant to be played, not as the bugs force me to play it.
In the meantime, I started Red Faction Guerillia; another great open world game. Gameplay is a bit repetitive though, compared to Fallout. Now where's my patch...? :snoring:

That above is EXACTLY what i am doing, i stopped playing about 3 weeks ago when the airborn radscorpions and the broken quests got my head so [censored] i just insta ragequited.

I recommend League of Legends, f2p but still .. no bugs... and lots of fun features...

And ill say it with you "where is my damn patch"

and dont make the enemies immortal this time.. thx

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:15 pm

That above is EXACTLY what i am doing, i stopped playing about 3 weeks ago when the airborn radscorpions and the broken quests got my head so [censored] i just insta ragequited.

I recommend League of Legends, f2p but still .. no bugs... and lots of fun features...

And ill say it with you "where is my damn patch"

and dont make the enemies immortal this time.. thx

Those air born radscorpions will always behave that way, even if there is a patch. It's because of havoc

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:33 pm

Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:17 PM "We’re currently running final testing and certification"
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1123616-game-updates/page__view__findpost__p__16635439

05 November.....FINAL testing......now we have 05 december....still FINAL testing haha??
only ridiculous the empty words from the devs...

i think not only the final testing blabla one full month ago was just propaganda, the entire "comprehensive update" blaba was also just propaganda and all they really release soon is a small update for the new dlc achievements, exactly like they did already with fallout 3!

In a different thread, after pointing out that Gstaff posted about the patch on November 30, I posted that they wouldn't announce a date until they were absolutely sure they would be able to make that date. Gstaff posted after that:

Talaran is right. We're getting to the finish line, but it's very hard to speculate on an exact date. A few weeks back I could have speculated on the date, and I would have been wrong. We typically only give updates when we have substantive info to share.

As mentioned previously, we should have an update soon on all three platforms (PC, 360, and PS3). Will they all come out at the same time? That's our hope. Keep in mind it's a different process to get the patch/update out on Xbox, PC, and PS3 (it's actually two process for PS3... Europe and North America).

Once the update starts becoming available, we'll let everybody know. We'll share details in the pinned threads (across in FNV General Discussion and in the support boards), as well as on the blog.

Thanks for your patience.

Evidently there is more to the process now than there was for only one platform. They are working on it, and they will update information when they can.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:31 am

I posted that they wouldn't announce a date until they were absolutely sure they would be able to make that date.

If only they maintained those same, high standards before releasing the game...

Please tell me they at least get why many of the people who purchased this game are pissed off?

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:56 pm

If only they maintained those same, high standards before releasing the game...

Please tell me they at least get why many of the people who purchased this game are pissed off?

i will give them one thing.

Its not AGE OF CONAN broken.. but its still broken... like eating a delicious cake.. but having to sit opposite of your fat uncle... its a good time .. but there is always something moving thats gross on the horizon

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:18 am

Why not make a game out of waiting for the patch (I have). If they release the patch the same week the dlc is scheduled, then I will simply will not buy the dlc. However, anything before that and they get my money. seems like a fair deal to me

edit - for anyone not sure, that was suppose to be a joke. I've got plenty of unplayed/underplayed games to hold me while they patch this thing.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:26 am

http://twitter.com/#!/Fallout/status/11794763531419649

"We’ve wrapped up work on the Fallout: New Vegas patch and submitted it. We’ll let you know when it’s up on PS3, 360, and Steam."

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:08 am

http://twitter.com/#!/Fallout/status/11794763531419649

"We’ve wrapped up work on the Fallout: New Vegas patch and submitted it. We’ll let you know when it’s up on PS3, 360, and Steam."

I've pinned that in several locations... we'll let you know when it's live on each platform (highly unlikely they'll all go up at the same time).

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:13 pm

I've pinned that in several locations... we'll let you know when it's live on each platform (highly unlikely they'll all go up at the same time).

Any chance on a list of fixes?

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:50 am

I've pinned that in several locations... we'll let you know when it's live on each platform (highly unlikely they'll all go up at the same time).

thanks!

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:27 pm

The fear, of course, is that the "free market" will interpret that as a condemnation of the game styles, not of the bugs, and end our chances of getting great games like Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas ever again.

I can wait for patches in order to support games I enjoy.

This is exactly what Im afraid of, but completely agree. These types of games (imo) are the best bang for your buck. I hope the market doesnt see this in a way that supports the idea that there is no desire (or possible revenue) for this type of game. The gaming community needs something more than 500 CoDs/FPS style games a year, i know there is a massive fan base for these games, but enough already. i hope other developers decide to throw their hat in the ring and take a chance on an RPG/FPS type game like Fallout 3

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:14 am

So, where's the patch?