If I took the reason that the Empire has crumbled in the last 200 years, then what's the pointing of helping any faction? Have any of you noticed that just about everyone has been dwindling or lost their purpose for the last 200 years? What's the difference between helping Kodlak restore the ideals of the original Companions and helping the Empire? By this reasoning, Mercer Frey should also remain the leader of the Thieves Guild. They're in a sorry state, and should just stay that way, right?

The way they've written the entire game though is that whatever the Dragonborn touches, turns to gold. But suddenly the Empire is an exception? Why? I've yet to see anyone explain why. It's just sounds like Stormcloak heavy supporters who aren't happy with their own games, and want to override everyone else's too.

I don't think civil war is a big deal. There are still millions of ways to make another TES game without including player choices. They could always say some other fella other than Ulfric achieved Nord Independence or some legionaire other than General Tullius kept them at bay.

Oh hey the forums work now.

Anyways, I imagine that in good old Elder Scrolls tradition, the outcome of the civil war will be mysterious and/or irrelevant by the next game. Just like the matter of which Great House the Nerevarine joined and sabotaged rival House bases for. Completely irrelevant by Oblivion.

That or another Dragon Break

I think there are hints in how they've written Talos' history that support this type of confusing outcome. Some lore books have him as Hjalti the young rebel, who fought alongside Wulfarth. Some have Tiber Septim as a heroic general for the imperial army who was a completely seperate entity that fought against Nords, and had his throat cut trying to protect the emperor. Some have Hjalti aligning with Wulfarth, only to part ways and betray him - as well as killing the emperor himself in a coup - and becoming the new emperor Tiber Septim.

edit: This is one reason why I don't even care about Talos worship btw. I don't even know who the hell he is!

Oh no. Not that. Not everything that the Dragonborn touches turns to gold. Look at the Thieves Guild in Riften. Maybe in YOUR game it turned to gold, but mine? I just played Karliah, Brynjolf, and killed Mercer and ripped him off so I could get the Skeleton key once I found out that's how he was getting his "luck". So, yes, he should have remained in charge. Right now they have no leader.

Mages College? LOLZ. Sorriest Arch Mage in College history. I can barely cast a Muffle. Had to take a potion just to get in. Barely defeated Ancano (and I had to go to novice level to do that). They'd have been better off if I'd never set foot in there.

DB? They made out better.

Sonja? She made out just fine.

Maybe because almost every other game is made this way? Leave one single truly open world RPG be the way it is. Make your character memorable from the small things, regardless of whether Tamriel remembers his name or not.

Yeah well, I point you toward the lore and leave it at that.

Even the small things don't matter in this game. "Yeah, you heard right Mr. Patrol Guard. I'm the Harbinger of the Companions who fetches the mead. I cured my lycanthropy too, even though fur still grows from my ears."

That's why I'm hoping that the stuff they left open (Civil War, Moot, Blades vs Paarthy) will matter. Because the small things don't. Give a dog bone already.

One clueless guard does not ruin my immersion.

I guess this is just not my hangup, so it doesn't bother me.

I'm not just talking about one instance. I'm talking about asking for one of the fundamental principals of the universe to show itself: Cause and Effect.

Sorry, that sounds dramatic. Don't mean to be. Point is that putting choices in a game or scenario intrinsically implies that those choices produce some sort of feedback. If they don't, then what is the point to begin with? Relying on my own imagination is cool, but I can do that without a game. I can create entirely new worlds. A game OTOH is there to is produce some feedback from your actions or patterns. If I move a chess piece in a game, then it reconfigures the entire basis on how the game plays out. I *could* imagine moving a chess piece does this or that according to my whims, but it'd be delusional.

edit: I'm too much in a rush. Probably not articulating that right..

This all will matter ... in the DLC content. In 200 yrs? it will be forgotten except by long lived elves.

That'd be good enough.

Threads like these piss me off though. The game's only been out a few months, and suddenly, I'm destined to be a Stormcloak supporter and carry Wuuthrad. Great. Let me just delete my saved game. Even before DLC comes out.

the resemblance between the cyrodillic and the roman empire is stronger than ever and what came after the collpase of the roman empire? the dark ages and i fear the same will happen in nirn when the cyrodillic empire finally fades into history tamriel will be in its version of the dark ages.

Have to agree, m'friend....

Not all of us agree that there even was such a thing as the "dark ages" (an invention of the 18th-19th centuries), but since the prophecy speaks of a Season of War Unending, I doubt the future is rosy no matter what we do in the game. But we sort of knew that. If you're not screwed in Tamriel, just wait a decade or two. lol

Oh, ain't THAT the gods' truth!

Elsweyr actually divided into two states, I think. Whatever, I said provinces. Summerset, Valenwood and Elsweyr. =P The redguards managed to get the Thalmor to withdraw from most of southern Hammerfell, although the place is half-wrecked.

Yeah, wait.... the Second Aldmeri Dominion isn't going to self-destruct in the next 10-20 yrs. It's a power shift. And there is going to be a lot of resistance especially if the Thalmor faction remains in power.

The ironic thing about threads like this is that almost the exact same situation played out with the redguard, but I bet that if the game were called Hammerfell rather than Skyrim, some of the same people saying Ulfric is Hitler would be talking about the heroic struggle of an indigenous people to throw off the shackles of colonialism.

I don't think that way. I'm a halfbreed Scandinavian/Thai (Caucasian/Asian), and I've seen racism on both sides. Do you really think I prefer one over the other? Fictional or otherwise?

The first fight I ever got into was around 6 or 7, when some kid made racial slurs to me (Asian slurs). I still have a warped pinky nail, from hitting him so hard in the head. Strangely, around the same age, I kicked another kid out of my yard when he met my dad. My dad is white, and he later laughed at the idea that my dad was white, and made fun of his appearance. It really hurt, as much as the Asian slurs did.

It's always been a lame thing to deal with since. I've tried to help people who experience it themselves. I know what the position is like to be in.

As for roleplaying games, it hits too close to home to want to play characters who act like that.

Alinor winning in Skyrim will be canon. The war will have them lose to the united forces of the survivors of man, the dunmer, orsimer, and argonians in the east of Tamriel. For this way is the only way the fifth era will come, for the loveletter suggests that the dunmer still exist then, which in turn suggests that the thalmor will be defeated. But at what cost? The scroll has yet to be written.

I'm sorry you've had to deal with that. I wish you, and everyone else in that situation, did NOT have to so frequently deal with it.... but it seems as if that's never going to happen. I'm "lucky" I guess - I'm totally WASP back to the 1300s, so the only prejudice I've had to deal with myself was the "glass ceiling" as far as working women. We can hope for a better world.... perhaps for your children/my grandchildren....

But yes, I'm not overly thrilled about the entire scenario in this game. Which is why I'm simply ignoring the MQ and the civil war crap from now on. If TES VI happens, I'll deal with it the same way I've dealt with the previous 5: run one toon through the MQ, and a couple through the major side questlines, and then play it my own way from then on....

Thats really unforunate, i guess i was lucky to have gone through my life without ever directly witnessing racial discrimination against myself or those around ,e.

It's a different story there. The empire handed over Hammerfell to the Thalmors, but Skyrim is starting it's own revolution, and the reason for it is the banning of Talos worship. Which seems quite strange to me, and doesn't seem like the real reason as Tiber was always against an independent Nordic State as well as an imperial soldier who fought off the Nordic Rebellion to make a name for himself. It's more so their hatred for elves that is the real force behind the rebellion.

No matter what happens,against Alinor's might we'll stand
Our trusty weapons in our hand
Ready to die and take back our land
And never give in to a single demand

For we stand tall and we stand proud
Our valor and courage will not be smothered by a shroud
For fear spells the coming gloom
Which may or may not be our doom

Unless we plunge an imperial blade in your chests and feed your bodies to the rebel Bosmers...