[Elizabeth Lysons]

The Empire can't keep the provinces safe. Remember the sack of Orsinium by High Rock and Hammerfell while it was still an Imperial province. The Empire may have helped refugees, but nothing indicates the 2 attackers were punished severely. If this can happen while the Empire wasn't facing Thalmor, what will happen after Thalmor.

[Lucie H]

The ancient Roman fell and is gone. I'm not sad. Thank god I wasn't a part of it when it did.

[Emzy Baby!]

An Empire does not "unite" anything. It is not unity to wipe out armies, kill nobility, and smash cities. This is not the Republic of Tamriel, but an empire.

The end results disagree, all of the provinces of Tamriel united under a single banner with common economies that support common development and a common legion to defend them. People grew up under the Imperial banner and thought of themselves as Imperial citizens and often even refused to renounce it, even dying defending it (Skyrim, Valenwood, Summerset isles for recent examples of people who refused to give up their imperial identity)

Take the real world examples of the US and Canada. Immigrants moved and populated the vastness of the countries, and their descent now hold dominion over them. Yet the people think of themselves as American or Canadian despite having came from Germany, Japan, China and what other places have you. The same holds true in Tamriel, the people may have originally came from independent places but their descendants grew up as Imperial citizens and think of themselves as such. It was won with conquest, hardly an ideal way of unification, but thats still uniting a population. I think the fact that the civil war in Skyrim has a lot more Nords siding with the Imperials over the Stormcloaks give a good account of that.

[Naomi Ward]

There can be no denying the Empire united Tamriel in it's time, and that the continent was far more peaceful due to this.

[alicia hillier]

Yep, you're right. I don't see the point at all.


Welcome to teh forum.

Then let me ask you, do you support his demand that everyone must fight to the death?

If you do, then why not support the idea that Ulfric should have put his money where his mouth was and fought to the death when his chance came?

If not, then you are admitting he is wrong by asking his people to fight to the death regaurdless of the situation.

[Stace]

love how my point was completely ignored /sarcasm

[Ricky Meehan]

But didn't he surrender knowing death awaited him anyway ? I thought he done so out of a desire to save his men. I think he would have gave his life in battle for the cause but he knew at that moment the cause had failed (for now).

[Victoria Vasileva]

I believe certain people here would like to see "Unite Against Racism" banners draqed all around Windhelm and prison sentences for racial abuse to prove that Ulfric is actually a racist (which would be infringing on free speech). For proof that Ulfric is not racist play the Stormcloak questline as A DUNMER..


They'd also like to see the Nords of Windhelm give the refugee Dunmer their own manors that their families built and go an live in the Grey Quarter instead. Perhaps make a Dunmer jarl as well eh ? The Nords have provided pretty well for the Dunmer given the situation, remember they're also settling in Solstheim in large numbers as well. The Dunmer are just ungrateful bas,tards.. Can you imagine them doing this for Argonians if Black Marsh had been hit by disaster ? "Sure come on in Argonians, let me just fit this chain round your neck"....

It doesn't chance anything playing as a Dark Elf simply because no one in the game changes their disposition regaurdless of your race- the game just doesn't seem to register it. You can run around as a naked thong wearing prissy girly man at the Companion Hall, and no one would say anything. Likewise you can go around to the Temple of Debilla and profess chastity for life and none of the priestesses would care. What the PC does outside of quest actions and choices is more or less non-cannon. I defend Ulfric when the criticism is unfair, but I also hold him accountable for his wrong doings. Ulfric is an anti-immigrant 'nationalist' "Skyrim is for the Nords" is a textbook comparison to many chants their real life counterparts read off.

[Nicholas C]

He's racist against the Dunmer.

Edit: Plus Khajiit and Argonians.

Not Khajiits.

[Red Bevinz]

Actually he refuses to send aid to help Khajiit caravans when their attacked.. Think Brunwulf Free-Winter mentioned that.

[Adam Kriner]

Actually he refuses to send aid to help Khajiit caravans when their attacked.. Think Brunwulf Free-Winter mentioned that.

He is also most likely thrown in with the Empire.

Spoiler

He is selected to be the Jarl if Ulfric dies, so he have a motive for slanering Ulfric. Just playing the devils advocate here

[lauraa]

The Empire can't keep the provinces safe. Remember the sack of Orsinium by High Rock and Hammerfell while it was still an Imperial province. The Empire may have helped refugees, but nothing indicates the 2 attackers were punished severely. If this can happen while the Empire wasn't facing Thalmor, what will happen after Thalmor.

Which is exactly why the Thalmor were able to take over Valenwood, take Elswyr, and steamroll the empire for a good long time. It's also why the Stormcloaks were able to start a civil war in the first place too, the empire is too weak. Furthermore, Hammerfell was able to repel the Thalmor, alone, and after being used as a bargaining chip by the empire. And as others have mentioned, the Empire was close to also throwing Skyrim under the bus.

The empire is spread too thin, is too weak, and is hardly cohesive. At this point, the empire should be renamed Cyrodiil, plus some other places, because it's very clear this empire is very Cyrodiil centric.

Though, if you ask me, I'm very sure Mede II is completely full of regret every single day,

Spoiler

hence it's why he seems so calm when he is assassinated. He's just about given up on living.

[stevie critchley]

Actually he refuses to send aid to help Khajiit caravans when their attacked.. Think Brunwulf Free-Winter mentioned that.

I think Brunwulf is one of the most competent people in this game. Too bad it's between him and Ulfric; A man of good moral caliber and a visionary. If only they could work together.

[Jamie Lee]

Please give me the name of the book about Ulfric beeing tortured by Thalmor.

[Laura Richards]

I'm not saying that makes him racist, I don't think it's the Jarls responsibilty to protect the Khajiit caravans anyway, I'm just saying certain people in the game consider him racist for doing so.


It's a Thalmor dossier. Check UESP for it.

[FoReVeR_Me_N]

I'm not saying that makes him racist, I don't think it's the Jarls responsibilty to protect the Khajiit caravans anyway, I'm just saying certain people in the game consider him racist for doing so.


It's a Thalmor dossier. Check UESP for it.

I read his dossier at MQ but I couldn't understand why it is still there?
When did they torture him?

[Jesus Sanchez]

During the Great War, just towards it's end I think.

Obviously because he's a major figure in Skyrim at the moment. The Thalmor aren't going to bin it.

[Mashystar]

Ulfric is a communist!

[Becky Cox]

Ulfric is a communist!

Welcome..... to the forum.....

[Rude Gurl]

Ulfric is a communist!

I think he's a socialist! Also, I'm going to go siding with the Thalmor now. Probably high-five Alduin on the way there. Just to piss everyone else off.
That's what you get Skyrim, for not appreciating the awesomness of Argonians. Shame on you. Damn cold weather, ice, pine trees, rocks and bears.

[Fanny Rouyé]

National socialist would be more accurate.

Normal socialists don't really care for creating borders and stuff, they'd be pushing for a fairer Empire.

[carla]

And I'll say it again: if such an oath indeed exists, and Ulfric took it as a prerequisite to beginning his training with the Greybeards, then he was a child when it happened and therefore not able to act freely as an agent of his own will and the oath is null and void anyway. You don't make binding contracts with children. Whether he would've wanted to make such a "contract" as a child is irrelevant. If he was chosen to go to HH and his family sent him there and he had to take some oath or make some vow to make it happen, even if he wanted to do it at the time, ten years later he still has every right to renounce that oath and choose his own path as an advlt. Unless you want to see the Greybeards as the kind of people who choose a child as a student but only on the condition that his entire life will be signed away to them, without the child having the freedom even as an advlt to choose a different life for himself.

And that's still just speculation. Exactly the same you are accusing other people of.

I am responding to the fact that some people keep insisting that Ulfric betrayed the Greybeards by receiving their training and then going out and using it in violation of their philosophy. In order for it to have been a betrayal of that kind, he would've had to have promised NOT to do that prior to being trained.

Ulfric was chosen by the Greybeards when he was a child. That is not speculation, it is confirmed by in-game dialogue. If a lifetime promise to follow the Way had to be made at the time as a prerequisite to his training, then he made that promise when he was a child. Either that, or someone else (for instance, his family) made it for him.

If no commitment to follow the Way was made prior start of his training, then that means that the Greybeards agreed to train him without any promise on his part to adhere to their teachings, and can't complain about a willful betrayal of their trust when the thing they supposedly trusted in never existed.

First of all, I have seen no evidence that any such commitment was either made or required.

Second, people who assume that it was made and then complain that Ulfric broke it are basically complaining that an advlt did not keep a promise made almost ten years earlier, either by himself or others, when he was still a child. That is what boggles my mind, that there are people in the world who think it's reasonable to be pissed off at an advlt for not following through on something he may have agreed to when he was a kid. Really? A kid thinks he wants to be a fireman or a doctor or a monk when he grows up, and then grows up and changes his mind and that's some kind of irredeemable character flaw? That's perfectly normal for a kid. We don't expect them to know, as children, who they are going to be when they reach advlthood or what they are going to want when that day comes. If we're basing our lifetime expectations of them on what they say as children and then get disappointed, that's not a willful betrayal on their part, it's just foolishness on ours.

[Ridhwan Hemsome]

Windhelm's small size and limited housing is a game mechanic (because Beth couldn't put more in). Likely, there IS available housing. If that's what Windhelm would actually look like, it probably wouldn't even stand an arrow to the knee.



I would also imagine that a lot of Stormcloak supporters on this thread would be racists. All the common-and-not-very-good excuses for racism are there in Ulfric's defense. Kind of hits a nerve, really.

Imperials are [censored]s. Stormcloaks are [censored]s. I'll just start a new governmental body of my own and called it Dragonborn Utopia Land.

That's a ridiculous and insulting thing to say. What's next, an Occupy Windhelm movement?

[Mari martnez Martinez]

National socialist would be more accurate.

Yeah, can someone please explain to me how the Stormcloaks are in any way compareable to the Nazi Party? The only thing they have in common is a form of nationalism, but where that Nazis was universally an ethnocentric one, the Stormcloaks vary. While most probably take a racial view, others such as Galmar, Ralof and Ulfric himself seem perfectly happy to let anyone form an Argonian to a bloody Altmer into their ranks.

[Darlene DIllow]

Sorry I misunderstood the meaning of the term National Socialist. I wasn't intending to compare the Stormcloaks to Nazi's. I think fascist was the term I was looking for. I think the Stormcloaks do have a relatively fascist ideology, they want to place Nords first within Skyrim (not saying that's right or wrong).