[luis ortiz]

At first, I liked Ulfric, because I was led into believing he was truly fighting for his homeland and for what he believed in.

Then I played as an Imperial Soldier once... and Tullius and Rikke really said a lot of biased thins to me. It made me change my mind, and made me think that Ulfric was a scumbag [censored]. So I hated him.

But now I am reading about him, and hearing about him in Skyrim.

--Ulfric was chosen to learn the Voice... which must mean the Greybeards thought highly of him... right?
--Ulfric joined the Imperial Legion, and helped fight the Thalmor.
--After the Great War, Ulfric returned to Skyrim, where he helped reclaim the Reach from the Forsworn, then placed some protection there.
--Ulfric challenged Toryyg to a duel. And Toryyg accepted. Ulfric beat him - the 'old Nord way' apparently.
--Ulfric accepted surrender at the hands of the Legion when he was captured.

I don't know about anyone else, but to me - it seems like Ulfric really is a Hero. I mean, he DID participate in the Great War, and he did reclaim the Reach, and he did fight Toryyg in a duel. His fighters are fighting for freedom of worship, and for their homeland... which I don't think is bad.

Someone convince me he is bad again.

[Jade MacSpade]

He's racist against the Dunmer.

Edit: Plus Khajiit and Argonians.

[Camden Unglesbee]

He's racist against the Dunmer.

is it just me or do you think Bethesda is hating on the dunmer? 1st they burn theyre home with the events of red year then they make all the nords racist towards them

[Lilit Ager]

is it just me or do you think Bethesda is hating on the dunmer? 1st they burn theyre home with the events of red year then they make all the nords racist towards them

Probably, I think them being cursed is their thing.

I just remember a dunmer complaining to the guy who becomes the Jarl (if you pick Imperial side) about how the gray quarter is a slum and they get no guard patrols and if a dunmer is attacked, he does nothing.

[Miss Hayley]

"I would gladly retire from the world, were such a day to dawn."

[Myles]

That sixy voice.

I really do believe he is fighting for what he believes is right, in the same way Hitler was. Both were/are trying to unite a country under any means necessary.
He only seemed evil because we were on the opposing side, which is is how it ALWAYS is.

[Jessica Colville]

I personally believe he's nothing more than an over-rated soldier who can make pretty speeches. He's not full on stupid but I don't see him as too intelligent either, and I think all his honor talk is completely full of guar dung. An honorable warrior would have done the duel straight up, weapon against weapon, instead he decided to use a special ability he knew Torygg didn't have even though he was already a better enough fighter to begin with.

Not to mention the "The Empire is weak!" rants between him and Galmar. He's already been captured by both the Empire and the Thalmor, heck if not for Alduin showing up when he did Ulfric would be under the dirt right now lol. If he was smart at all he would have went directly after the Thalmor that are in Skyrim and if by some miracle he managed to drive them out he could have easily used that political edge to gain the support of more than only half of skyrim and THEN rebelled from the Empire. I think he's going about his cause in a very bone-headed and selfish way.

[Causon-Chambers]

He's racist against the Dunmer.

Edit: Plus Khajiit and Argonians.

When has Ulfric himself said anything about hatred of those races?

[ijohnnny]

Yes and no, I see things very differently than you do, but I do respect him for serving in th Great War. I don't hold what happened to him, and his subsequent 'faltering' to Aldimir torcher into forcing him to giving them information. That could have happened to anyone. However I do hold a lot against him for what he did after it.

Ulfric was chosen by the Grey Beards at a young age to learn the Way of the Voice, however keep in mind that the way of the voice was to be used to glorify the gods, not for the glory of man. Yet time and time again we see Ulfric abuse his powers for his own political gain, more or less following the path of Tiber Septim. This naturally went against the Grey Beard's teachings, who had selected Ulfric because of his potential. During the Markarth incident for example, Ulfric ignored Imperial requests to withhold his attack on the city to allow the negotiations to play out, and failing that allow the new Imperial Army to finish forming. Instead he stormed the city which led to the deaths of many people, and allowed unspeakable atrocities to be committed by his men and presumably himself , including massed [censored], murder, looting, and torcher, just to reveal the location of the Forsworn tribes who had nothing to do with the occupation of Markarth. No sooner had his banner been raised over the city, he started to tell his people of the imperial betrayal, telling me he planned the civil war long before the fighting actually began. He spoke of how the Imperials refused to help them- despite being a member of the negotiations and being told of the Imperial Army gathering to reclaim the Reach should the negotiations had failed. He knew this, yet chose to inflame the people against the Imperials based on lies. In actuality he was simply setting up his power base and sowing the seeds of discontent into the population. Whether or not he assaulted the city with only his own force in order to be viewed as a hero to further his image, rather than the rash action of youth is debatable I think.

However, after it he solidified his power in the region and after inflaming the local population with anti-Imperial feelings based on the parent view of Imperial inaction (although Ulfric knew what was really happening) he returned to Windhelm upon learning of his Father's death and almost imminently slew the High King for his support of the Empire, stating that it was "Necessary to get events in motion". While challenging the King was his right, the manner in which he slew him was simply cold and calculated, not to metion a mockery of the way of the voice. Ulfric knew the young High King would be disgraced if he refused a duel after being insulted by a lesser Jarl, and also knew the boy had no chance against him, particularly with his mastery of the voice. It wasn't a duel of honor, Ulfric simply manipulated Nordish customs to advance his own political agenda, as he often does.

Just listen to how he speaks, he deliberately alienates the Nords who do not agree with by inference they are not "True Sons and Daughters of Skyrim", speaks of how "When I am High King", and for all his talk of Nordish customs and heritage he never displays them himself. He flaunts the most revered teachings of the Grey Beards at every moment, gives up when he sees the situation to be unwinnable (both upon his 1st and 2nd capture) downright lies to his people about Imperial intentions and apparent lack of support, and ignores that the despite all his alleged Thalmor butt-kissing, that the Imperials suffer the worst of any race at their hands during the war. He is simply a manipulative opportunist who wants to seize power for himself and is willing to do whatever it takes to do so. He doesn't give two septims about the Nords, he merely uses them.


I respect him for his service and suffering in the Great War, but even that may have just been politically motivated--especially given that he was the Eldest Son of one of the greatest Jarls in Skyrim.

[lexy]

I really wish Bethesda had elaborated on why he went from being a Pretty Cool Guy to a racist [censored] other than 'just because'.

[Ilona Neumann]

I really wish Bethesda had elaborated on why he went from being a Pretty Cool Guy to a racist [censored] other than 'just because'.

I think the entire "Skyrim is for the Nords" is pretty obviously a play on neo-fascism and other anti-immigrant philosophies. You glorify and romanticize your own culture, while demonizing the others and paint them as the cause of your own sufferings and reasons why the land is not in better shape. Not exactly textbook, but it's pretty clearly drawing inspiration from it I think.

[Cameron Wood]

He's not above fighting the dirty war in the Reach. He's a power-hungry warlord, which is absolutely compatible with being a true Nordic hero of legend. From the genocidal Ysgramor to the titanic hubris and ruthlessness of Talos, dikeery always goes along with greatness.

[Steven Nicholson]

I think the entire "Skyrim is for the Nords" is pretty obviously a play on neo-fascism and other anti-immigrant philosophies. You glorify and romanticize your own culture, while demonizing the others and paint them as the cause of your own sufferings and reasons why the land is not in better shape. Not exactly textbook, but it's pretty clearly drawing inspiration from it I think.

Yeah, I get that. I want to know WHY he's like this when we've been told it's pretty much the opposite of how he used to be. The banning of Talos worship is an extremely flimsy excuse for a major character like Ulfric to pull a 180 and go from a RAH RAH EMPIRE to [censored] DEM DARKIE ELVES. Bethesda had a golden opportunity to really dive into the politics of this world and instead they totally gloss over it.

[lucile]

let's add a few FACTS that were conveniently left out, shall we? [devil advocate mode on]

-He was captured by the Thalmor and revealed sensible information pertaining the war in exchange of his life. So much for "Glory or death"
-He was responsible for the ethnic cleansing of Bretons during the Reach campaign; other atrocities were committed in Markath as well
-He refused to help the Redguards during the second great war despite their plea.
-He used a Shout for personal gain... something the greybeards (who taught him the way of the voice) forbid, so he betrayed his masters.

[Trevor Bostwick]

let's add a few FACTS that were conveniently left out, shall we? [devil advocate mode on]

-He was captured by the Thalmor and revealed sensible information pertaining the war in exchange of his life. So much for "Glory or death"

Not saying he's all good and wonderful hero, but I must point out that he was TORTURED into revealing that information (which wasn't as crucial as he thought, by the way).

From a writer's point of view, I really like how they did Ulfric. He has good sides and bad sides. He has a background, past traumas, he's made some pretty terrible things in his youth (Markarth incident), he has goals and dreams - in short, he's a complex character. It's possible to view him as a hero, and it's possible to view him as, well, a scumbag. He definitely stirs some feelings, considering all the threads about him! So good job there, Bethesda!

From a rp point of view, I like how his charismatic yet dubious character makes it possible for my characters to have very different opinions about him.

And on a totally different level, I like him just because he's one of the sixiest NPCs in the game (I suspect most of my female characters will end up doing the Stormcloak questline just to get a little, ehrm, closer acquainted to him...)

[Paula Rose]

I think he is a hero, but I should qualify that I don't consider hero = saint. In fact I think you don't want a saint leading a country in a time of war.

is it just me or do you think Bethesda is hating on the dunmer? 1st they burn theyre home with the events of red year then they make all the nords racist towards them

They've always been enemies. And the Dunmer are pretty racist themselves. I think it's actually really cool that the Nords gave them refuge after the Red Year and I hope there can be some kind of alliance between them against the Dominion.

[Amanda Leis]

-He refused to help the Redguards during the second great war despite their plea.

Source? Keep in mind that Ulfric was just a young soldier, and not a jarl, prior to the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai.

[J.P loves]

I forgot to add that, in the game intro, when Alduin attacks Helgen, Tullius scramble to defend the townpeople ("Bring the townpeople to safety" he says in the English speaking version if the game) instead of chasing Ulfric, who was conveniently running away instead of facing a common enemy.

Considering the situation, I think the actions of the people involved revealed their true nature more than anything else.

[Emma louise Wendelk]

He is a war monger, his lust for power is blatantly obvious to those that are not blind. Also he thinks the Nords live on a higher plain of existence. He beats the drums of war for himself and self gain not for the people.

He is fighting a war because of his own selfish ambitions when a greater threat looms with an empire hanging together by the Aldmeri Dominion, and the Thalmor, and their true goal is to break the Mundas and escape the physical plane so they can once again be a part of the magical plain, but Ulfric is blind to the Dominion because of his ego.

[Greg Swan]

I think he is a hero, but I should qualify that I don't consider hero = saint. In fact I think you don't want a saint leading a country in a time of war.

They've always been enemies. And the Dunmer are pretty racist themselves. I think it's actually really cool that the Nords gave them refuge after the Red Year and I hope there can be some kind of alliance between them against the Dominion.

I hope the Dunmer and the Nords mortal enemies in the last can unite to face the growing power of the Dominion the empire needs all of the help it can get against their foe.

[Melanie]

@msxyz

That's a pretty big leap in logic to assume that because Ulfric was fleeing from the Dragon and the Imperiels who were going to execute him moments before, he abandoned the Redguards during the Great War. Like Celan said, Ulfric was just a random soldier in the war. And you need an actual source.

[Chantelle Walker]

He is a war monger, his lust for power is blatantly obvious to those that are not blind.

So what? The empire needs an ass kicking, and all leaders desire power. That's how you can accomplish your goals.

I mean, the emperor thinking he has the right to rule over the entire continent is not egomaniacal or self-serving at all. Hark, I was blind and you made me see.

I forgot to add that, in the game intro, when Alduin attacks Helgen, Tullius scramble to defend the townpeople ("Bring the townpeople to safety" he says in the English speaking version if the game) instead of chasing Ulfric, who was conveniently running away instead of facing a common enemy.

Considering the situation, I think the actions of the people involved revealed their true nature more than anything else.

Ulfric stays, he and his people get their heads chopped off even if they survive the dragon. They're outnumbered and disarmed. Tullius' and Hadvar's efforts are admirable but the Stormcloaks fleeing is understandable given their situation. Like Ralof says, the gods are not going to give you another chance. The dovahkiin runs too, remember. So let's not be hypocritical. This is the sort of nitpicky criticism that people who've already made up their minds throw out when it doesn't have a lot of logic or weight behind it.

[Bellismydesi]

So what? The empire needs an ass kicking, and all leaders desire power. That's how you can accomplish your goals.

I mean, the emperor thinking he has the right to rule over the entire continent is not egomaniacal or self-serving at all. Hark, I was blind and you made me see.

He is on a power trip in the face of a greater threat, that was the whole point of the post you deleted, you only focused on the most negative thing I said of him. Mede II is an imbecile and he does not need to be on the throne we need a strong new leader. We can go on another four or five page rant about out differing views on this and dance circles around eachother again if you wish.

[Cccurly]

He is on a power trip in the face of a greater threat, that was the whole point of the post you deleted, you only focused on the most negative thing I said of him. Mede II is an imbecile and he does not need to be on the throne we need a strong new leader. We can go on another four or five page rant about out differing views on this and dance circles around eachother again if you wish.

Well, as I see it, the empire is colluding with the Thalmor so they are the greater threat or might as well be, and they also would rather bleed their own people than tear up that sham Concordat or cut Skyrim loose. Bad leadership loses wars, too, not just strong enemies. Of course it's up to interpretation whether you believe what the empire says about Ulfric's motives or what he himself says.

[Christine]

Well, as I see it, the empire is colluding with the Thalmor so they are the greater threat or might as well be, and they also would rather bleed their own people than tear up that sham Concordat or cut Skyrim loose. Bad leadership loses wars, too, not just strong enemies. Of course it's up to interpretation whether you believe what the empire says about Ulfric's motives or what he himself says.

It's all propaganda for their own personal gain, line I have said several times, Ulfric and Mede both are flawed, Ulfric wants power regardless the coat if the Thalmor shatter the Mundas what will he rule, nothing Skyrim will not exist, Mede is a coward not fit to lead a nation let alone an empire he should bowed so easily to his now Thalmor masters. I find fault in both but I see the benefits of a United empire especially against the Thalmor, read my profile it has a small portion to read on the Thalmor from the Imperial Library stating what they want. It will be difficult to attack the Dominion because if their naval fleet and their wizard lords of the Summerset the empire and Skyrim need to cease their civil war and unite their banners in the face of the Thalmor or risk the unbinding of the dragon.