[Marine x]

It isn't the Nords he's trying to not anger, it's the Dunmer as the Dunmer and Argonians hate each other for many reasons. If it weren't for the Dunmer, the Argonians could be let into the city.

There no proff to that claim, Free-winter himself claims if a "Non-nord" caravan is hit, he refuses to send aid, however if a nord caravan is hit, he send help...He is just Racist.

[Niisha]

In all honesty, no one really like us, lizards. It's the sad, sad reality of TES. :'<

I actually like Argonians. I like all races.
What I DON'T like is people whining about all day and going all "woe is me..." If those people in Windhelm that were whining were Bretons or Bosmer, I would dislike them just the same.
I also do not like that some are so pretentious. Geez, when you are in desperate need of a roof over your head, and are given one freely, along with other benefits, you kinda learn to shut your yap or you might find yourself out on the streets.
It's the Dunmer that need Ulfric, not the other way around.

[Kate Schofield]

There no proff to that claim, Free-winter himself claims if a "Non-nord" caravan is hit, he refuses to send aid, however if a nord caravan is hit, he send help...He is just Racist.

A Nord would be much more likely to support Ulfric's cause for a free Skyrim than other races. Heck, Galmar is surprised that a foreigner or another race would want to support the Stormcloaks so that implies that they don't expect other people to join them but don't have a problem with them. As for ignoring Khajiit caravans, know that ALL of Skyrim are suspicious of Khajiit which doesn't help the fact that Elsewyr is Thalmor land so it's likely that some are suspicious that the Khajiit could be Thalmor spies which is proven true in one mission. Dialogue states Ulfric is running short on supplies so should he waste supplies on people who aren't likely to support his cause at all which could therefore lead to more deaths for no reward? Honestly, people need to think behind some of these things instead of just yelling "racist".

[Alan Cutler]

I would also imagine that a lot of Stormcloak supporters on this thread would be racists. All the common-and-not-very-good excuses for racism are there in Ulfric's defense. Kind of hits a nerve, really.

That's the problem with imagination--without some sort of governor it tends to...well, imagine things. I think you would be dead wrong about most Stormcloak supporters being racist. They might be indifferent to race--believing, as a Dunmer in Windhelm more or less says, that ability counts for more than advantage.

For instance, I believe that keeping my own little plot on the commons green is far better than finding fault in the other guy's plot. If everyone attended to what they can do to get their own affairs in order such issues would be moot.

The problem is that so many people today believe that they have already evolved beyond that point and don't need to worry about themselves. It's ironic...it's both Jacobean in its self-congratulation and "soup du jour" in its implementation.

Imperials are [censored]s. Stormcloaks are [censored]s. I'll just start a new governmental body of my own and called it Dragonborn Utopia Land.

Better to establish a new religion and go out into the world of Skyrim as missionaries--it's a natural extension of the RL missionary zeal embodied in some of these posts.

[Donald Richards]

What about the Altmer in Windhelm? ya know an thalmor race

She said she used to sell less wares, but the nords gradually became to trust her.

Nords way of life= carry your own weight, something the Dunmer lacks in the eyes of Windhelm residents

[lydia nekongo]

-snip-

Gameplay mechanic is more likely, since the player is supposed to assume the actual Windhelm would be a lot larger. Otherwise it ain't really a city, just a ridiculously small village (You also have to keep in mind that space-time is compressed x30 in the in-game world.)

The silly example you cited, on the other hand, is just a silly example. Don't try to oversimplify an argument.

"Oh, they're just lazy; that's why they're poor!" or "Oh, their people did this-and-this, so we have the right to do this-and-this."
If you've ever worked with people who live in poverty (and not American poverty; the less-on-one-dollar-a-day poverty) or even been discriminated against, this kind of talk would kind of hit a nerve.

[Joe Bonney]

In all honesty, no one really like us, lizards. It's the sad, sad reality of TES. :'<

I'm a Nord and I like Argonians. They probably prefer living down by the docks anyway do they not ? They should be allowed in to trade and stuff though. I like all races in the following order;

Nord, Orc, Argonian, Imperial, Dark Elf, High Elf, Wood Elf, Khajiit, Redguard, Breton

A lot of them there isn't a great deal between.

[Bird]

-snip-

I was saying that to make a point. What people say on here doesn't exactly translate to real life, no matter how ignorant (some supporters) the statements are. It was a retort to "all Imperial supporters would be crazy." Though yes, I get that you're pointing out the fault in logic, but there's fault in SS (stormcloak supporters) logic as well that wouldn't play out well IRL.
Hey, if you can't find something you like, better to eff 'em all. I think the only guy I like in the entire game is Paarthy. Maybe us with cool dovah blood can be cool.

[Symone Velez]

In all honesty, no one really like us, lizards. It's the sad, sad reality of TES. :'<

I don't think that's true. I, for one, am fine with the Argonians. I just don't anthropomorphize them or try to impose my own mind-set on them. They're a different species with both biological and biologically informed cultural imperatives.

There is this belief, rampant in the land, that everyone should think the same or be roundly vilified and castigated...if not beheaded.

[KIng James]

--After the Great War, Ulfric returned to Skyrim, where he helped reclaim the Reach from the Forsworn, then placed some protection there.

Small but important point: the Forsworn are Reachmen. From the Reach. Where they live. Say what you will about them, their aim is to secure independence for the Reach and drive out the Nords/Imperials who have conquered and oppressed their people. Ulfric, Mr. 'Skyrim for the Nords', was instrumental in violently denying the Reachmen the rights he claims for his own people.

[Robert Bindley]

Gameplay mechanic is more likely, since the player is supposed to assume the actual Windhelm would be a lot larger. Otherwise it ain't really a city, just a ridiculously small village (You also have to keep in mind that space-time is compressed x30 in the in-game world.)

The silly example you cited, on the other hand, is just a silly example. Don't try to oversimplify an argument.

"Oh, they're just lazy; that's why they're poor!" or "Oh, their people did this-and-this, so we have the right to do this-and-this."
If you've ever worked with people who live in poverty (and not American poverty; the less-on-one-dollar-a-day poverty) or even been discriminated against, this kind of talk would kind of hit a nerve.

Good, gameplay mechanic is for you. I agree that the size of the city is that because of gameplay mechanic, but I don't agree that the argument is good in regards to this conversation, since the size you imagine Windhelm to be is just that, imagination. We would have to agree to disagree.

About the "poor" comment. First, I'm not from America so I have no idea what you mean by "American poverty".
Second, I have have had a really rough patch in my life so I know, yes. I was almost without a roof above my head, and had to rely on the kindness of others to offer me that.
The conditions I lived in were not so great (I can detail on PM if you really find this interesting) but it WAS a roof above my head and a warm place at night. Was I to start complaining that I want luxury? Yeah, right. I was thankful and learned to do with what I was offered since it was offered to me freely.
I grew a "thick skin" and learned to fight and get out of that condition. I didn't moan, complain, weep nor lay down and die. If I would have done that I would still be there!

[Rachyroo]

Small but important point: the Forsworn are Reachmen. From the Reach. Where they live. Say what you will about them, their aim is to secure independence for the Reach and drive out the Nords/Imperials who have conquered and oppressed their people. Ulfric, Mr. 'Skyrim for the Nords', was instrumental in violently denying the Reachmen the rights he claims for his own people.

Well ACTUALLY I believe (think) the Dwemer lived there before the Reachmen.. Also if Nord lore is true then Nords originated in Skyrim, travelled to Atmora, then journeyed back millenia later. This would make them more native than the Reachmen.

[TWITTER.COM]

Good, gameplay mechanic is for you. I agree that the size of the city is that because of gameplay mechanic, but I don't agree that the argument is good in regards to this conversation, since the size you imagine Windhelm to be is just that, imagination. We would have to agree to disagree.

About the "poor" comment. First, I'm not from America so I have no idea what you mean by "American poverty".
Second, I have have had a really rough patch in my life so I know, yes. I was almost without a roof above my head, and had to rely on the kindness of others to offer me that.
The conditions I lived in were not so great (I can detail on PM if you really find this interesting) but it WAS a roof above my head and a warm place at night. Was I to start complaining that I want luxury? Yeah, right. I was thankful and learned to do with what I was offered since it was offered to me freely.
I grew a "thick skin" and learned to fight and get out of that condition. I didn't moan, complain, weep nor lay down and die. If I would have done that I would still be there!

Good point. I noticed a couple of Dunmer were complaining about the rest of their brethren.

"The only way to win the Nords respect is with hard work"

"When I'm not listening to my fellow Dunmer complain about injustices"

Two quotes (may not be perfectly accurate) from Dunmer in Windhelm. It does seem like some of the Dunmer are expecting the Nords to roll out a red carpet for them and treat them like royalty. It's p,iss poor luck the their homeland has been destroyed, but it isn't the Nords fault and the Dunmer can't expect the Nords to bankrupt themselves in providing for them, they've been more hospitable than most races would have been.

[Eire Charlotta]

Good point. I noticed a couple of Dunmer were complaining about the rest of their brethren.

"The only way to win the Nords respect is with hard work"

"When I'm not listening to my fellow Dunmer complain about injustices"

Two quotes (may not be perfectly accurate) from Dunmer in Windhelm. It does seem like some of the Dunmer are expecting the Nords to roll out a red carpet for them and treat them like royalty. It's p,iss poor luck the their homeland has been destroyed, but it isn't the Nords fault and the Dunmer can't expect the Nords to bankrupt themselves in providing for them, they've been more hospitable than most races would have been.

And considering the nord's tendency of killing mer, the dunmer were practically given the red carpet. After all, they were given Solstheim, and were allowed to govern themselves in Skyrim and in Skyrim cities. Seriously, if the altmer can gain the trust and respect of the nords, then the problems of the dunmer lie solely on them. Seriously, the altmer on a whole are doing better than the dunmer. That is not supposed to be right, no matter how you look at it. The nords have hated the altmer since the both were Ehlnofey (i.e. before recorded history).

[louise fortin]

The Falmer would probably have a better chance intergrating into Skyrim society than the Dunmer.

[Sylvia Luciani]

I would prefer Brunwulf Free-Winter to be Jarl of Windhelm myself, he is a fair man.

He certainly spends enough time in the Palace already, chowing down on free food and drink courtesy of the man he berates so much in public, who by the way is such an intolerant bastard that he has no problem whatsoever with his most notable local critic sitting at his table eating his food. Brunwulf doesn't even seem interested in talking to Ulfric about anything, not even the supposedly very pressing issues he promised the Dunmer he would bring to Ulfric's attention. Nope, he just shows up, has a free meal, and leaves.

Oh and when he's Jarl, the most you'll get out of him is talk about having meetings about making plans about how to do nice things with the money he expects to have to do nice things with, now that the war's over. You know, the money Ulfric couldn't do anything with even if he wanted to, because he didn't have it available. Naturally the Dunmer will still be living in the Grey Quarter, but now that there will be more money for public projects they can probably afford to help them fix it up a bit. The Argonians, of course, will still have to stay on the docks. The Khajiit aren't even mentioned AFAIK, so don't expect to see them getting into the city any time soon.

Wow there's just so much drastic social change going on it's enough to make your head spin!

[Ana Torrecilla Cabeza]

That's the problem with Imperial rule, corruption. Look who they chose for Jarl of Riften, a BLACK-BRIAR !!! It's how I know I've made the wrong decision.


Despite his flaws Ulfric loved Skyrim.. I doubt he could stomach corruption from any of the Jarls under his rule.

[Emmie Cate]

Hmm... I don't trust the Silver-Bloods all that much, but when compared to the previous Jarl, he's a lesser evil or simply a smarter evil. But other than them, the worst the other Jarls that are part of the Stormcloaks have is being too hotheaded (Winterhold and Dawnstar's Jarls) or ineffective (Jarl Law-Bringer)

[Gavin Roberts]

The Falmer would probably have a better chance intergrating into Skyrim society than the Dunmer.

Hey, even some Altmer integrated into the Skyrim society. The Dunmers might have a chance after all. No promises though.
Also, why are Altmers so damn good looking, even when sporting that ridicolous mid-life crysis haircut unique to elves? Makes it harder to hate their snobby faces.

[Lloyd Muldowney]

Also, why are Altmers so damn good looking

Matter of opinion. I don't find them attractive at all.

[Gwen]

Their only appealing trait is their height, other than that they're a bit creepy looking. I prefer a nice Nord woman like Ysolda, Hroki would be my ideal wife but she seems unwilling.

[Far'ed K.G.h.m]

Matter of opinion. I don't find them attractive at all.

Have you looked at Ondolemar? I mean, geez. A hot elf with a rich voice and you can even earn his approvement by a quest.
This in itself is horrible enough but then Bethesda went ahead and made it so you can't marry him afterwards. Screw you, Beth.

[Alessandra Botham]

Every NPC in the game should have been marryable. So many hot waitresses I wanted to marry, the only decent looking NPC avilable for marriage is Ysolda. And she dresses like a tramp.

[Emily Shackleton]

And I'll say it again: if ...

And that's still just speculation. Exactly the same you are accusing other people of.

Just because it's *you* doing the speculating doesn't mean it's anything but speculating ...

[Spaceman]

Every NPC in the game should have been marryable. So many hot waitresses I wanted to marry, the only decent looking NPC avilable for marriage is Ysolda. And she dresses like a tramp.

Haha. Make every of them marriable and be able to equip anything. So I can have a harem of guys parading around in Nocturnal's clothes. Dovah Troll strikes again.