[Richard]

Tiber Septim was a man and he did a pretty awesome job of pulling together the regions. It was nowhere near perfect of course (a lot of Black Marsh remained independent, slavery couldn't be completely outlawed in Vvardenfell, etc.) but certainly better than what's going on right now.

He had a HUGE FREAKING ROBOT. Don't get me wrong, I like the big guy, but he was not a good man. And he didn't bring the empire together with cookies and a grandfatherly pat. He threatened to stomp on them. In some cases he depopulated whole areas in his conquests. Is that really the sort of leader you're wanting for your rainbow commune of Nords and Dunmer?

I would prefer Brunwulf Free-Winter to be Jarl of Windhelm myself, he is a fair man.

The only difference between Brunwulf and Ulfric is that the former wags his tongue a lot and makes promises he can't keep.

[Benji]

Yes Tiber Septim was a great man, not a kind man. Great men/women are usually required to commit both merciful and ruthless deeds. Tiber Septim could not have conquered the known world by playing nice 24/7.

[Alina loves Alexandra]

A Nord would be much more likely to support Ulfric's cause for a free Skyrim than other races. Heck, Galmar is surprised that a foreigner or another race would want to support the Stormcloaks so that implies that they don't expect other people to join them but don't have a problem with them. As for ignoring Khajiit caravans, know that ALL of Skyrim are suspicious of Khajiit which doesn't help the fact that Elsewyr is Thalmor land so it's likely that some are suspicious that the Khajiit could be Thalmor spies which is proven true in one mission. Dialogue states Ulfric is running short on supplies so should he waste supplies on people who aren't likely to support his cause at all which could therefore lead to more deaths for no reward? Honestly, people need to think behind some of these things instead of just yelling "racist".

They are probabley suprised that they would be stupid enough to help more like, as they look down their nose at them. I'm sure they would allow some foreign fool to give their life, as long as it saves a Nords in return.

He certainly spends enough time in the Palace already, chowing down on free food and drink courtesy of the man he berates so much in public, who by the way is such an intolerant bastard that he has no problem whatsoever with his most notable local critic sitting at his table eating his food. Brunwulf doesn't even seem interested in talking to Ulfric about anything, not even the supposedly very pressing issues he promised the Dunmer he would bring to Ulfric's attention. Nope, he just shows up, has a free meal, and leaves.

He's a war hero, i guess a little bit of food & drink is the least they can offer & perhaps Ulfric likes to keep his firends close & his enemies closer.

Oh and when he's Jarl, the most you'll get out of him is talk about having meetings about making plans about how to do nice things with the money he expects to have to do nice things with, now that the war's over. You know, the money Ulfric couldn't do anything with even if he wanted to, because he didn't have it available. Naturally the Dunmer will still be living in the Grey Quarter, but now that there will be more money for public projects they can probably afford to help them fix it up a bit. The Argonians, of course, will still have to stay on the docks. The Khajiit aren't even mentioned AFAIK, so don't expect to see them getting into the city any time soon.

Wow there's just so much drastic social change going on it's enough to make your head spin!

The money would obviously be to help rebuild the damage after the battle, and no doubt upgrade the Gray quarter. As far as i'm aware the Khajit dont live in any of the towns, they just have a few caravans & no doubt more attention will be paid to helping protect them, you'd assume with Free-Winter in charge now. The Argonians will live in the docks still, becasue thats the way the game is designed for them to live, regardless of who is in charge.

[Bad News Rogers]

The only difference between Brunwulf and Ulfric is that the former wags his tongue a lot and makes promises he can't keep.

Funny, Brunwulf gave me gold for killing bandits that were killing Khajiit caravans, guess you forgot about that one.

[DarkGypsy]

No one likes the khajiit caravans in general, Imperial and Stormcloak. Also, I still don't see the khajiit allowed inside Windhelm once Brunwulf was made Jarl.

[Annika Marziniak]

He had a HUGE FREAKING ROBOT. Don't get me wrong, I like the big guy, but he was not a good man. And he didn't bring the empire together with cookies and a grandfatherly pat. He threatened to stomp on them. In some cases he depopulated whole areas in his conquests. Is that really the sort of leader you're wanting for your rainbow commune of Nords and Dunmer?

Yes Tiber Septim was a great man, not a kind man. Great men/women are usually required to commit both merciful and ruthless deeds. Tiber Septim could not have conquered the known world by playing nice 24/7.

Pretty much this. He did what he had to do and created an empire. It was not all daisies and rainbows -nothing is- but it's the closest you can get to having equality between the races and a relative (I repet, relative) peace across Tamriel. I'm sure if he had a super secret spell of "turn hippy - 100 mill yard radius" he would have used it to make everything go smoother and without bloodshed but alas, no one has such spell. However, that makes me wonder... I wonder how far spell creating can go.

Like something along the lines of "Impregnate - On Touch" could be viable. Considering how much the Altmer despise everything that can be linked to the common rabble by association (and going at it like bunnies is definietly something that can be linked to them) they probably "breed" only through the usage of spells. Makes the actual selective breeding process even easier. Damn. I'm a sick, sick individual.

[Catherine Harte]

No one likes the khajiit caravans in general, Imperial and Stormcloak. Also, I still don't see the khajiit allowed inside Windhelm once Brunwulf was made Jarl.

Thats more likey due to the way the game is designed. I guess the Dev's could had made a little stall for them in Windhelm, but couldnt be botherd.

[CHANONE]

Good, gameplay mechanic is for you. I agree that the size of the city is that because of gameplay mechanic, but I don't agree that the argument is good in regards to this conversation, since the size you imagine Windhelm to be is just that, imagination. We would have to agree to disagree.

Good. I like to think of things lore-wise, you don't. That's cool.

[Greg Cavaliere]

We're getting dangerously close to political territory now, Lorelai and Amateur Explorer. Take it to PMs, as there is no way in hell any of this can be argued without mods coming in and closing the thread.

[Lil'.KiiDD]

We're getting dangerously close to political territory now, Lorelai and Amateur Explorer. Take it to PMs, as there is no way in hell any of this can be argued without mods coming in and closing the thread.

Cool. My post is edited. Should have been a bit more careful about that, sorry. Anyway, back to Ulfric.

Ulfric is a guy. Not my first choice to be a ruler of anything (maybe a man of war, but not a ruler). I'm fairly suspicious of men-of-war becoming rulers, though.

[Amanda savory]

An Empire does not "unite" anything. It is not unity to wipe out armies, kill nobility, and smash cities. This is not the Republic of Tamriel, but an empire.

[sharon]

Funny, Brunwulf gave me gold for killing bandits that were killing Khajiit caravans, guess you forgot about that one.

That's fine, but he does that whether he's jarl or not.

[Arrogant SId]

Yes the Empire united Tamriel. Perhaps through force but it still united it. Relative peace followed for ages after and even when skirmishes did break out they were much more sporadic than they would have been were Tamriel divided into rival factions.


Just look at what's happened since the Empire began collapsing for proof of that, the old blood feuds are re-emerging, the Empire could only repress them, not wipe them out.

[gemma]

Will people please stop saying an Empire "unites" anything? It is not unity to wipe out armies, kill nobility, and smash cities. Subjugation is not peace. This is not the Republic of Tamriel, but an empire.

Well, what would happen if the Thalmor threat got resolved (no matter by whom) and the Empire stepped down from the de facto ruler position?

There is two options here. The regions could either start a massive war with each other, destroying Tamriel in the process of holding this no holds barred fight, with an everyone against everyone basis until there's only one left OR they can shrink into themselves, closing down borders, trade routes and basically everything, deciding to never interact with each other / never aid the other region and keep whatever resources, military power and wealth they have only for themselves.

I guess the Argonians could fare quite well, Black Marsh has always been independent. The Altmer's homeland seems like it can accomodate their needs. After a little patching up, Cyrodiil is cool too. What is going to happen to the others? Orsimers have no land of their own. Vvardenfell got blown to pieces. Skyrim -even in it's glory- is cold as [censored] and barely anything survives the harsh climate aside from pine trees and bears. High Rock is small and the rocky cliffs, hills and mountains are a sure way to never succeed in growing and maintaining plantations.

While Valenwood is nothing short of awesome, the Green Pact makes life kind of really friggin impossible for Bosmers without the ability to trade with others. Elsweyr is like Skyrim but instead of harsh cold, you get harsh hot and a sh*tton of dry plains with the occasional patch of a jungle or two. Hammerfell just got over some pretty hardcoe Thalmor raiding, they won but it had cost them tremendous amount of money, supplies and life.

If no one steps up to the position of supreme ruler of Tamriel, it can get out of hand really, really quick and end up doing what the Thalmor wanted: end Tamriel.

[roxxii lenaghan]

Yes the Empire united Tamriel. Perhaps through force but it still united it. Relative peace followed for ages after and even when skirmishes did break out they were much more sporadic than they would have been were Tamriel divided into rival factions.


Just look at what's happened since the Empire began collapsing for proof of that, the old blood feuds are re-emerging, the Empire could only repress them, not wipe them out.

I'm surprised you like it, considering it's religion replaced half the Nordic one. Given your dislike of the fact that the Dunmer's culture might influence Nordic.

snip

Actually, I want Tamriel to descend into chaos. More politics that way.

[Rhysa Hughes]

I didn't say I liked it, I'm just stating what it done. Remember the Empire was founded by a Nord, well he was at least of Nordic descent. And I did admire the might of the Empire up until the 4th era when it began collapsing. Now I see it as weak and corrupt, unfit to unite Tamriel.

[Cartoon]

I like the Empire for what it was. A greedy war machine who wants to own all of Tamriel. I hate that Noble Knights of Justice they became in Oblivion.

[Amysaurusrex]

Actually, I want Tamriel to descend into chaos. More politics that way.

Okay. Let Tamriel descend into chaos. What then? It's only interesting as long as it dosen't interfere with your business. You would get pretty pissed off the minute something bad happens to you because of the whole chaos. In times like that there are no proper ruler or goverment, no trials or justice, no protection to expect, no nothing. Everyone is out for themselves and the Nines save you if somebody think that you're worth killing.

[luke trodden]

Remember genocides are perfectly possible without the peace of the Empire. That's what I fear the most, entire races being wiped out.


That's what I liked about Oblivion, Every race had it's own relatively prosperous homeland, Cyrodiil was the melting pot in the middle of it. Things seemed tidier then. The world had a system, now it's just chaos, wars everywhere.

Think of the danger Tamriel faces right now if a united force invades from Akavir ?? With the races of Tamriel too busy fighting amongst themselves the Akaviri invaders could pick the regions off one by one.

[Anthony Rand]

Okay. Let Tamriel descend into chaos. What then? It's only interesting as long as it dosen't interfere with your business. You would get pretty pissed off the minute something bad happens to you because of the whole chaos. In times like that there are no proper ruler or goverment, no trials or justice, no protection to expect, no nothing. Everyone is out for themselves and the Nines save you if somebody think that you're worth killing.

I mean descending back into city states with petty Emperors, warlords, ect. Like the Second Era, the chaos of which Tiber Septim ended by conquering all of Tamriel.

It just, to me, that the idea of Tamriel always being under an Empire is boring. It was fun while it lasted, but keeping it around for too long will lead to it getting stale.

[Zoe Ratcliffe]

Yeah that's true SilentColossus. It's life, Empire's rise and crumble.

The Mede's are no rulers. Not a patch on the Septim's. They won't be able to unite Tamriel. They're just a family of power hungry warlords who siezed power when the Empire was weak.

[Rusty Billiot]

I didn't say I liked it, I'm just stating what it done. Remember the Empire was founded by a Nord, well he was at least of Nordic descent. And I did admire the might of the Empire up until the 4th era when it began collapsing. Now I see it as weak and corrupt, unfit to unite Tamriel.

True. I have been thinking though. Call me stupid but what about letting the Orcs have a go at the whole uniting business? They have proven themselves to be much more than the savage, warmongering beasts some people make them out to be. As they have no homeland of their own, they wouldn't be biased against any of the regions. With the Imperials or other non-Orsimer race, there's the chance of having a supreme ruler that taxes everyone and then favoring their own base, pour at least half of the income into their own little kingdom. As Orcs can (and do) live everywhere, they don't really favor any place above the others. Also, Orsimer craftsmanship/smithing and soldiers have always been a backbone of every successful, major army. They certainly know how to fight and win a war, enforce rules and honor.

Vote for the Orsimer as the next rulers of Tamriel!

[Andrew Perry]

The only problem is basically every other race in Tamriel hates and fears Orcs. While they've gained some acceptance in recent eras they're still viewed as barbaric and dangerous. Their numbers are much too small to found an Empire, like you said they have no homeland, I doubt Orcs could master the beuraucratical or logistical side to running an Empire, though they'd have no trouble with the fighting I'm sure. They also aren't very flexible when it comes to fighting, they're basically all heavy armor, close combat fighters. How many Orc archers or mages have you seen ? Not many anyway.

The Imperials rose to power because they were so adaptible. I think they were described as a jack-of-all-trades by someone. I don't think Orcs have that capability. It's just not something I could buy happening.


What I would like to see them doing is forging their own kingdom. Perhaps in Hammerfell, carving it out and naming it theirs. This would be seperate from Hammerfell and every other kingdom in Tamriel, it would see the Orcs rebuild themselves and return to full glory (and onwards).

[Nathan Maughan]

I mean descending back into city states with petty Emperors, warlords, ect. Like the Second Era, the chaos of which Tiber Septim ended by conquering all of Tamriel.

It just, to me, that the idea of Tamriel always being under an Empire is boring. It was fun while it lasted, but keeping it around for too long will lead to it getting stale.

Let's compromise, then. We keep the Empire around but it only controls like two or three provinces. The rest get to be independent city-states and whatever.

[Samantha Jane Adams]

Let's compromise, then. We keep the Empire around but it only controls like two or three provinces. The rest get to be independent city-states and whatever.

Well, that is pretty much what it is now.