[Epul Kedah]

I like how everyone always rags on about him hating Dunmer (not that he exclusively does, but all Nords hate elves anyway. Look at Ysgramor, a nord legend, and of course Talos.) In your eyes, Dunmer are the ultimate race, aren't they? Stop living the Morrowind's past. Ulfric fights the empire because they are no longer strong enough to control Skyrim, much like Torygg wasn't fit to rule Skyrim. It's might makes right in Tamriel, and the empire is not the toughest kid on the block any more (although I respect the Empror after the DB questline a bit more). Ulfric is trying to step up to that mantle, which is natural.

[hannaH]

I like how everyone always rags on about him hating Dunmer (not that he exclusively does, but all Nords hate elves anyway. Look at Ysgramor, a nord legend, and of course Talos.) In your eyes, Dunmer are the ultimate race, aren't they? Stop living the Morrowind's past. Ulfric fights the empire because they are no longer strong enough to control Skyrim, much like Torygg wasn't fit to rule Skyrim. It's might makes right in Tamriel, and the empire is not the toughest kid on the block any more (although I respect the Empror after the DB questline a bit more). Ulfric is trying to step up to that mantle, which is natural.

Their is no ultimate race on Tamriel anymore, Ulfric is not liked because of his racism yes, but so are the Dunmer it was mentioned a lot before Skyrim now the focus in on the Nords. I do not like him for reason stated above but I also do not like Mede. Ulfric will never become the emperor, I think this because the civil war quest can happen either way, what I am curious to see is who will rule the empire later we might know in one of the future expansion packs that is what I am hoping for.

[Maddy Paul]

Ulfric stays, he and his people get their heads chopped off even if they survive the dragon. They're outnumbered and disarmed. Tullius' and Hadvar's efforts are admirable but the Stormcloaks fleeing is understandable given their situation. Like Ralof says, the gods are not going to give you another chance. The dovahkiin runs too, remember. So let's not be hypocritical. This is the sort of nitpicky criticism that people who've already made up their minds throw out when it doesn't have a lot of logic or weight behind it.

The dovakhin escapes because the game railroads him into doing it. It's not that you can choose to help the people with the hands tied and all but the options menu disabled!

I made my mind? Sure: after 300+ hrs and 5 different characters I think I've all the rights and reason to express a well funded opinion on the story narrated in the game. It's so hypocritical to express a view that's different from yours?

[Kara Payne]

let's add a few FACTS that were conveniently left out, shall we? [devil advocate mode on]

-He was captured by the Thalmor and revealed sensible information pertaining the war in exchange of his life. So much for "Glory or death"

To add to this, he also surrendered to General Tullius before the start of the game.

[Project]

let's add a few FACTS that were conveniently left out, shall we? [devil advocate mode on]

-He was captured by the Thalmor and revealed sensible information pertaining the war in exchange of his life. So much for "Glory or death"
-He was responsible for the ethnic cleansing of Bretons during the Reach campaign; other atrocities were committed in Markath as well
-He refused to help the Redguards during the second great war despite their plea.
-He used a Shout for personal gain... something the greybeards (who taught him the way of the voice) forbid, so he betrayed his masters.

Now he is out for the glory for himself, fighting a weakened for when like I said a greater threat looms, thwy need to band together and cast petty pride and differences aside.

[koumba]

It's all propaganda for their own personal gain, line I have said several times, Ulfric and Mede both are flawed, Ulfric wants power regardless the coat if the Thalmor shatter the Mundas what will he rule, nothing Skyrim will not exist, Mede is a coward not fit to lead a nation let alone an empire he should bowed so easily to his now Thalmor masters. I find fault in both but I see the benefits of a United empire especially against the Thalmor, read my profile it has a small portion to read on the Thalmor from the Imperial Library stating what they want. It will be difficult to attack the Dominion because if their naval fleet and their wizard lords of the Summerset the empire and Skyrim need to cease their civil war and unite their banners in the face of the Thalmor or risk the unbinding of the dragon.

How did he bow to the Thalmor so easily? the Legion was all but destroyed and the Imperial province laid in ruins with the Imperial city itself getting sacked and occupied. All projections at the time said the Thalmor had been stronger than the Empire at the time, and if the war continued they would had lost far more than the concessions demanded at the negotiating table. Obviously now we know that the Aldmeri Dominion strength was overestimated, not least of all because Hammerfell repulsed their invasion single handily, but thats comparing what we know now in modern times to the World War that might happen 50 years from now-- There is no way we would know about it.

[Connie Thomas]

Geez, how about we rename this thread "Ulfic is evil, and you're stupid if you don't agree." This isn't an Ulfric Stormcloak thread, this is a thread for empire sympathizers to vent out their dislike to the guy.

The empire is weak, and they're bowing the the Aldmeri Dominion. Yeah, you all may say the empire is just biding its time, but there's nothing to really indicate the empire is going to show some backbone against the Thalmor and the Dominion. The enemy is freely walking all around Tamriel, still assassinating those who speak out against the Dominion, and are still very much accomplishing their goals, only not so quickly.

So you all say Ulfric is a Nazi, a butt, and etc. But you know, he's at least showing some backbone against the Thalmor. Also, a weak empire is going to do nothing but further weaken everyone else. With Hammerfell gone, the empire now only has a shattered and barely there Morrowind, a bunch of backstabbing bretons of High Rock who are hardly a country, and a very pissed off Skyrim. A wake up call is needed in the empire, and no amount of "we need to stick together" is going to fix it, when clearly those on the top are going to continue to further weaken the empire.

Also, someone needs to tell Ulfric my Saxhleel cannot join the Stormcloaks, let alone make them a thane and be one of his top soldiers.

EDIT: Forgot to address his captivity. Remember, the guy was being tortured by the Thalmor. He's lucky they didn't skin him alive and stick hot pokers everywhere. He did hold out, and the guy would have been around his mid 20s. He did well enduring torture from the Thalmor as a youngin.

And with Markharth, the fact is, the Reachmen are and have always been a giant thorn on everyone's side. They've been openly hostile to everyone since forever. In addition, the empire did nothing at all to protect that area during the Great War.

[Sammie LM]

(...) So you all say Ulfric is a Nazi, a butt, and etc. But you know, he's at least showing some backbone against the Thalmor. Also, a weak empire is going to do nothing but further weaken everyone else.

Look, If real history teaches us anything is that, in time of crisis and unrest, the extremist factions always gain the upper hand. "At least they show some backbone" common folk say. In the long run, however, they end up doing more harm than good.

[Alister Scott]

So what? The empire needs an ass kicking, and all leaders desire power. That's how you can accomplish your goals.

I mean, the emperor thinking he has the right to rule over the entire continent is not egomaniacal or self-serving at all. Hark, I was blind and you made me see.


Ulfric stays, he and his people get their heads chopped off even if they survive the dragon. They're outnumbered and disarmed. Tullius' and Hadvar's efforts are admirable but the Stormcloaks fleeing is understandable given their situation. Like Ralof says, the gods are not going to give you another chance. The dovahkiin runs too, remember. So let's not be hypocritical. This is the sort of nitpicky criticism that people who've already made up their minds throw out when it doesn't have a lot of logic or weight behind it.

And he actually stays behind with his wounded soldiers, when you go up that tower to jump. If he was just saving his own skin, he would be running up the stairs before you.

[Josh Trembly]

It's funny to see how people can hate a fictional character so much

[Big Homie]

Ulfric has always been a racist. He didn't go from 'good' to 'evil'. He pretended to be good to get what he wanted. He served and fought in wars to gain the trust of his men and grab a foothold in Skyrim using the Imperials as his tool. He then betrayed them, let the Thalmor take swipes at them, and cement his hold.

Now, his true nature revealed, he has no choice but outright rebellion. And as a rebel, he may as well drop the Mr. Nice Guy act, so we now see... here is the conquering racist monster, Ulfric the Evil and his minions of uptighty whitey nords. Typical arian bullschmidt.

[Elizabeth Lysons]

let's add a few FACTS propaganda pieces that were conveniently left out, shall we? [devil advocate mode on]

-He was captured by the Thalmor and revealed sensible information pertaining the war in exchange of his life. So much for "Glory or death"

I'm sure you'd hold up under extended torture with no end in sight too. He apparently held out long enough that the info he did give up wasn't even useful anymore.

-He was responsible for the ethnic cleansing of Bretons during the Reach campaign; other atrocities were committed in Markath as well

You mean Igmund. Thonar's Journal note that it was the jarl executing the prisoners that Ulfric's team took during the siege of Markarth. Braig reinforces the jarl's nature when he gives his story about the jarl executing his daughter.

-He refused to help the Redguards during the second great war despite their plea.

I assume you're talking about the crazy necromancer lady that thought skyrim should've seceded the moment Hammerfell did despite hammerfell not asking skyrim for help. Not only is that a ridiculous claim, but Ulfric didn't even have the authority to do so. That'd be Torygg's father.

-He used a Shout for personal gain... something the greybeards (who taught him the way of the voice) forbid, so he betrayed his masters.

They aren't the owners of the voice. It's not their call on how it gets used. The voice was originally a WAR weapon. One nord(Jorgen) got his feelings hurt a while back and decided, no one gets to use the voice except in the way I want them to. He then shouted down all the other voice users at the time until they had to give up.

[Lisa]

let's add a few FACTS that were conveniently left out, shall we? [devil advocate mode on]

-He was captured by the Thalmor and revealed sensible information pertaining the war in exchange of his life. So much for "Glory or death"
-He was responsible for the ethnic cleansing of Bretons during the Reach campaign; other atrocities were committed in Markath as well
-He refused to help the Redguards during the second great war despite their plea.
-He used a Shout for personal gain... something the greybeards (who taught him the way of the voice) forbid, so he betrayed his masters.

1: Not correct, he was tortured for the information.
2: Source? Even the Jarl of Markarth says that Ulfric was asked to retake the city and that they offered him free worship. I take the word of a living Jarl who supports the Empire over a book written by an imperial schoolar any day.

Spoiler

In the Escape from Cidna Mine quest there is also prisoners who were there that says it was the Markarth government that executed the Bretons after they managed to take the city, not Ulfric.

3: I want a source on that. Also, I am not sure he was a Jarl at the time of the request either since he didn't gain that title before after the Markarth incident.
4: Yes, he betrayed the Way of the Voice. Dishonorable? Maybe, but he was never given any chance of not getting the training as far as I am aware. He was also only a boy. I would be prone to leave High Hrothgar myself. As for the personal gain: Yes he uses the training he have to further his own agenda. Like everyone else.

On another point i have seen in the thread: The Thu'um is considered to be a weapon and a tradition of the nords. I don't see how using it is dishonorable. The thing one could claim was dishonorable was to challenge a man he knew he would defeat, but Ulfric himself says the whole duel was to prove a point.

Yes, I also like to play the devils advocate

I don't thinkn Ulfric is as bad as many portray him, but he is far from a saint.

[Amy Masters]

And he actually stays behind with his wounded soldiers, when you go up that tower to jump. If he was just saving his own skin, he would be running up the stairs before you.

And incidentally to whowever pointed out that he surrendered to Tullius and that's why he was captured, if you speak to Ralof about this after following him to Riverwood he will tell you something about that. According to him, they were a small party that got ambushed, and they were badly outnumbered. Ulfric ordered them to lower their weapons and stop fighting in order to prevent them from fighting to the death for him when (given the size of the Imperial contingent) it would have accomplished nothing except getting more of them killed.

Not that it matters, because if he hadn't surrendered and let them all fight to the death then he'd be a Bad Bad Person for not caring enough about his men to accept the inevitable while some of them were still alive.

[Yvonne Gruening]

Im going to sound shallow and unreasonable here, but heck.

I don't care what bloody glory or honor or whatever he has. The fact that he's opposing the empire, which already has its hands full with the thalmor makes him seem rather tactless. Does he really think he can govern skyrim on his own, and protect skyrim from the thalmor, alone? Im so sick of all that "true sons of skyrim" and all that fanatical worship of talos. Dead people can't worship.

The message he sent out to me was something like "oh we'll fight with honor in order to worship the gods we want and we'll die with glory if necessary". which seems like the "all brawn and no brain" stereotype. Better to pretend you've given up worship and stab the thalmor in the back when the opportunity arises, yes?

[brandon frier]

I don't care what bloody glory or honor or whatever he has. The fact that he's opposing the empire, which already has its hands full with the thalmor makes him seem rather tactless. Does he really think he can govern skyrim on his own, and protect skyrim from the thalmor, alone? Im so sick of all that "true sons of skyrim" and all that fanatical worship of talos. Dead people can't worship.

No he doesn't think he can. That's why he's sending requests to both Hammerfell and High Rock about forming alliances.

[Stephanie Kemp]

is it just me or do you think Bethesda is hating on the dunmer? 1st they burn theyre home with the events of red year then they make all the nords racist towards them

Dunmer have Vvardenfell. Get the F%#k out of skyrim.

[Cash n Class]

As I said, they really did a good job with this character, not many stirs so many feelings!

[Tracey Duncan]

As I said, they really did a good job with this character, not many stirs so many feelings!

That was part of what kinda bummed me out about doing the CW for the Legion. When I got to the end I was really sad because even though he was my enemy and had to die, I knew when I brought the weapon down that I was permanently removing one of the most interesting characters in Skyrim from my game. I doubt I'll ever do that again.

[maya papps]

Ulfric is neither good nor bad, hes human. so hes both.

It all boils down to weither u believe the mass amoutn of propaganda thats is spewed out in the game, which bout most of it is disproven if u look hard enough AND if u believe the Empire should answer to its discisions to what it did at the end of the war. Not wiether it was right or wrong, or do or die, but do they be responsible for their discisions that affected the whole country? Sometimes doing good has dire consequences.

[^_^]

Eh, Ulfric is a [censored] and even admits he was wrong about the war. I don't get how you can follow someone like that.

Anyway, the Empire is fighting to keep everyone united with the Dominion looming overhead. They are putting up the most effort to keep things together and try to build their strength to oppose the Thalmor while Ulfric just up and decides his petty issues are worth putting the world in danger.

Someone needs to unite the Empire again like Talos once did. The Stormcloaks oppose even that and he is their patron god.

[Jani Eayon]

The best thing to do is make as many threads about Ulfric as possible.

[Sarah Bishop]

As I said, they really did a good job with this character, not many stirs so many feelings!

This is one thing that I do appreciate about the writing in Skyrim. Both the Imperials and Storm Cloaks are grey, with pros and cons. One can choose neither but certain letters point out that that is exactly what the Dominion wants - perpetual civil war weakening both. There is no pure choice: help a decrepit empire, a racist insurrection, or do nothing and play into the hands of the worst of all options, the Aldmeri.

[Bek Rideout]

That was part of what kinda bummed me out about doing the CW for the Legion. When I got to the end I was really sad because even though he was my enemy and had to die, I knew when I brought the weapon down that I was permanently removing one of the most interesting characters in Skyrim from my game. I doubt I'll ever do that again.

I know... I will do the legion someday but my problem is that I don't want to kill Ulfric... Can't we just send him to, like, Morrowind or something?

[kevin ball]

Eh, Ulfric is a [censored] and even admits he was wrong about the war. I don't get how you can follow someone like that.

In Sovngarde? All of the souls in the mist are in despair. Rikke also talks about a useless war. Everyone there is emo, because they are trapped outside their eternal rest and being devoured.

Anyway, the Empire is fighting to keep everyone united with the Dominion looming overhead. They are putting up the most effort to keep things together and try to build their strength to oppose the Thalmor while Ulfric just up and decides his petty issues are worth putting the world in danger.

Someone needs to unite the Empire again like Talos once did. The Stormcloaks oppose even that and he is their patron god.

It's interesting how fond people are of imperialism. That aside, the empire is failing badly and in my view only looking out for Cyrodiil at this point. They tried to use Hammerfell as a bargaining chip, and now they're using Skyrim.