He was chosen by the Greybeards to be taught the Thu'um at High Hrothgar when he was a kid.

Hehe... Six months later and I'm still finding stuff I don't know. I thought I had hit him up before but don't recall that dialog option.

One thing I've started to wonder about is, is he actually a veteran of the Legion, or just of the Great War?

I've seen a lot of stuff about him being in the Legion, being a Legion commander, joining the Legion when he left High Hrothgar... but all I remember from within the game itself is that he fought in the Great War. I suppose it's easy to assume that anyone who decided to "join up" would enlist in the Legion, but I don't know why it isn't just as easy to assume that he joined a militia of some kind that went to fight alongside them, perhaps the militia he led in Markarth later on grew out of that.

I'd just like to know that all the talk of him being a "commander in the Legion" actually comes from verifiable sources, and not just assumptions being made simply because he took part in the war and was later the commander of a militia in Skyrim. I mean it just seems interesting that he went from a presumably very young advlt who'd just spent the previous ten years of his life in seclusion on a mountaintop with a bunch of semi-pacifist monks, to a "seasoned Legion commander" so quickly. I know promotions and experience come quickly in wartime, but... he was very young, and son of a Jarl or no, probably not very experienced when he joined up unless his studies at High Hrothgar were supplemented by lots of combat/military stuff on the side somehow.

I can't agree more with you there.

Well I've always assumed he was part of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliaries_(Roman_military), like the Ancient Roman Legions used to have. That made the most sense to me since I still can't see him as a Legionary officer type. Nor part of their rank and file.

Yeah, that makes sense to me as well. If Eastmarch, for instance, sent an auxiliary force, it seems like him being the son of the Jarl would give him more of a standing there than within the Legion. Far more likely for him to become a commander in that type of outfit than in the Legion proper IMO. Even if the force was made up of volunteers from all over Skyrim, being the son of any Jarl would probably mean automatic entry at an "officer" level.

He begged Rikke to stand down and she refused. I suppose he could have overpowered and disarmed her, then thrown her in prison, but he respected what she wanted, which was a warrior's death. It's all very Nord, but I don't see how you could have watched that scene and come away thinking Ulfric wanted to kill Rikke out of selfish reasons.

As for the OP, I don't think Tullius is a poopyhead. lol He's a good general and a decent man. I prefer it that way, where you have good, competent antagonists on both sides. I do wish we had learned more about Tullius personally- he doesn't seem fleshed out.

He didn't almost cut your head off. The Emperor didn't almost cut your head off. That annoying woman at the start didn't almost cut your head off. The executioner was the guy who almost cut your head off, and how would he know that you weren't just another rebel?

Normally you get a trial, and not even prisoners of war are summarily executed as a rule. If Tullius hadn't been hurrying to put on a display of anti-Stormcloak violence to impress the peasantry, he could have figured out that you were just a nobody.

I like Tullius, at the begining he is a little rough about nord culture but mostly because he isn't a nord and isn't used to the culture but as he gets to know the culture and gets used to it he becomes more tolerent. and a big part of his attitude is he is a soldier fighting seccesionists when there is a clear and present threat the entire empire INCLUDING Skyrim and the seccesionists, how do you think an american G.I. from like maine would have felt if the south tried to seccede from the U.S. right after Pearl Harbor?

Ulfric, as King (of Windhelm), is allowed a leading position in the Legion as long as he and the emporer agree on it. He would not have to "enlist" and would not neccesarily have to wear legion armour and such.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-first-seed-book-3series is anything to go by.

Well, 26 years after the fact really. And if the US had pretty much surrendered and was allowing Japanese secret police to drag away American citizens in the night, I'm pretty sure the pitchforks would come out- especially among veterans of the war.

He wasn't Jarl (King) of Windhelm during the Great War, he was the son of the Jarl. He didn't become Jarl until he got out of prison after the Markarth Incident. Nevertheless I can see where special dispensations might be made for any member of a "royal" family that chose to join up.

It still doesn't verify that he did in fact join the Legion, which is what many seem people seem to assume. I'd just like to know if it's really just an assumption or if there is something in the game that says, yes, he is a veteran of the Legion itself, not just of the Great War.

Alvor tells you point blank that until Ulfric started making trouble no one paid much attention to enforcing the treaty everyone had their own shine and worshiped secretly in their own home. You can complain all you want but it doesn't change the fact that there wasn't a real crack down on Talos worshipers until Ulfric demanded free worship of talos in return for freeing the reach from the forsworn. It is shown there are a number of Imperial supporters who may be secretly worshiping Talos.
As proven in Markarth the Thalmor aren't allowed to break into peoples houses looking for evidence, they actually need permission from the Jarl for that. Which is why that Judicator may try and hire you. Ulfric's rebellion makes the Thalmor's job easier as each and every stormcloak is an open Talos worshiper. Plus the whole it weakens the Empire and Skyrim.

Imperial Supporters give plenty of evidence Ulfric's boys just ignore it.

In the 21st Century thats true but go back a thousand years and if your arrested alongside a bunch of rebels you're dead

Yeah there's a lot missing from Tullius's backstory. Given some of the remarks he'll make I tend to infer that he's frustrated with the elder council. (He mentions he gets enough problems from politicians) His dialogue at the end of the war, and cut dialogue at the embassy implies that he'd prefer the empire dissolved the WGC now instead of waiting. But he still has faith in the empire as an institution and what it stands for. He seems to be a good tactician. Prefers a more cultured lifestyle. War-weary. Views the dragonborn as a symbol of hope to revitalize the empire(near the end of their questline)

I wish he had said more because he seemed to have a good view of the political side of the empire.



And you're completely ignoring how recently after the great war that was. Yes the incident was used as their reason for enforcing the WGC. But it happened less than a year after the WGC was signed. To say that the thalmor would never have sent justicars into empire territories after the great war is disingenous.



Yep, the stormcloaks are worshipping Talos. Didn't see any of their supporters get sent to prison and tortured though. You'll note a distinct lack of thalmor presence in stormcloak controlled cities.



Sure, they just fail to follow through on the implications of what that evidence means. To use an imperial term. They fail to look at the big picture.



Except TES has actual recorded trials, both in game(Daggerfall) and in books.

In a dev teaser posting in the lore forum before the game, a mage writing from Cyrodiil says "the Talos cult has been persecuted as never before." They started in Cyrodiil, but they were coming to Skyrim eventually- you think they would let the stronghold of Talos worship go unscathed? "We're coming for you in every one of your quarters, sons of Talos. None shall survive." By the time we reach Skyrim game time, the empire is not only allowing it, but using the Thalmor to take care of inconvenient rebels. And people talk about Ulfric committing treason...

No, not true. It was normal to ransom prisoners of war and though prisoner massacres did happen, they were noted disapprovingly by medieval chroniclers. But even so, I was objecting to the idea that it wasn't Tullius' fault because he couldn't have known who you are. He could and should have at least given you a hearing.

Yeah, Tullius svcks.

that's the thing the empire didn't surrender they made a peace treaty (i'll admit a one sided one) but everyone knows white gold concordat will only last untill the empire can get back on it's feet enough fight back so the best way to get back the worship talos is for the people to help the empire not pave the way for people that made the outlawing of talos

I sided with the Empire, and while I don't hate Tullius, I definitely have more respect for Ulfric than I do for him. He comes off as unconcerned with Skyrim, and that he's only present in the country to get his job done, nothing more. He doesn't seem to have any passion for the land at all. I see both sides, though, so I do have some respect for him. Actually, I think Rikke could do his job a lot better, if she had the chance to take his position.
Especially what he says at the end of the Civil War questline, if you side with the Empire. That just seems plain disrespectful;

I mean, come on, Tullius, show some respect.

Romans thought trousers were for barbarian sissies. (Which is why tunics and hosiery were popular for so long in most European cultures: because of Roman influence.) Also living in the Mediterranean probably has something to do with the battle skirts. Standards change.

Better a scumbag than a poopyhead.

^ He just won the thread

The thing that made me side with Tulius was when the dragon attacks Helgen. Right before Rolof tells you to run inside you can hear Tulius scream "Guards, get the townspeople to safety!"

I really liked that, he's getting attacked by Alduin and his first thought it to make sure the townspeople are safe. That is something Ulfric would never do.

And you know this because...?

Cuz he's a big poopyhead of course