Because Imperial logic is flawless. [sarcasm]

When has Ulfric ever shown any kind of affection for his people?

You...are kidding right...


Go to Windhelm and listen to him. He most definitely cares about his people. Tullius doesn't even respect Nordic ways he just thinks they are annoying.

He's fighting a war and having to jump through hoops so a Jarl will let him defend his city. That's annoying and troublesome. He probably didn't have a lot of time to read up on Nord culture and how to deal with them in their ways while coming to Skyrim, focusing instead on how best to end Ulfric's pointless blood-shed.

And as for the people Ulfric cares about. Yes he makes a very pretty speech about holding comrades as they died in his arms, but when his own soldiers are bleeding to death in Helgen he doesn't check on them at all. The two ideas don't gel well if you ask me.

I'm not saying he has to stop everything and perform life saving surgery right then and there, but it would be nice if he at least talks to these people, tell them that it'll be alright, that they'll either make it out of there together or meet up in Sovengarde. But he acts as if he doesn't give a damn about them.

You think escaping a dragon and the Imperial soldiers has anything to do with that? I also don't see Tullius do the same. Though i agree that Ralof treats his Stormcloak brethren better more often. I always liked Ralof...good man...good man.

He's just doing his job and he's the lesser of 2 evils IMO. I think Ulfric just cares about Ulfric, and uses Talos as a means to an end, and that end being power.

General poopyface all the way

You're applying modern Western culture to that of others. Innumerable civilisations wore skirts or skirt like outfits, and many still do.

Ulfric is worse. He rode to solitude under a banner of truce. Once in the blue palace he challenged Torygg to combat knowing that Torygg wouldn't be able to best him. Torygg looked up to Ulfric, if he asked Torygg he would have greatly valued and considered Ulfrics opinion. However the power hungry bear of the north baited the young king into a fight he couldn't win. Ulfric just wants to be high king and justifies his self serving agenda with mind washing propaganda that innreality is just pure racism to any non-nord.

I was all for the storm cloaks until it was in their plans to attack peaceful neutral cities just because they disagree with their beliefs.

Hmmm attacking people because they believe something different from you, sounds like the same morality that guides the Thalmor.


On a side note though, where the [censored] is the knights of the nine order that the champion of cyrodiil rebuilt? If anyone can give testament to the dam elves that Talos exists it's the divine crusader.

Tuliius' first reaction (not counting "What in Oblivion is THAT!?) is setting up a defensive and trying to get the townspeople to safety. Ulfric doesn't even pick up a weapon to help the cause. Now you can argue that this is because he'd just be arrested and executed if he stuck around, and maybe that's true, but I have a feeling a lot of the Nords in the Legion would have serious issues about instantly executing an enemy that just helped to save your life. Killing him like that would just inflame the Nord population and make the war worse. More than likely, if Ulfric had been taken back into custody again (which he most likely would have), Tuliius would have to take him back to Cyrodiil for a trial, if only to appease the people. It still wouldn't be that great of a PR move though. I think Ulfric had more to gain by staying and fighting than he did by fleeing, at least in the war for the hearts of the people.

Well they probably should've given him a fair trial in the first place but i see your point. I still don't think it would've been a good idea to stay around though. Also i just remembered that the Imperials were torturing Stormcloaks in their dungeon. I don't think the Imperials are in any way playing nice.

Believe me, I'm no fan of the Imperials either, but for the life of me I can't get behind Ulfric. He's a great public speaker, and very charismatic, but I can't help but distrust him. Part of it is his betrayal of the Greybeards. While I don't think it was wrong for him to back out of becoming one of them to fight the Dominion, I think he betrays them through the misuse of his Thu'um. If he didn't want to be a Greybeard, he could have simply stopped shouting, but instead he uses it for war. I know it was originally a weapon, but the people who taught it to him taught it to him so that he may use it a certain way, and his betrayal of that idea is akin, in my eyes at least, to someone studying to be a surgeon so they can slowly torture people without killing them. It's a perversion of their teachings.

The thing is, I could be okay with him using it against the Dominion because he wasn't doing it for himself, but rather for Skyrim. However, I view his use of the Thu'um against his High-King to be completely vested in his own selfish ambitions. He could have beaten Torygg in direct combat anyway. The use of the Thu'um was to make him look better, and to instill fear in those who oppose him. That isn't for Skyrim. It's only for Ulfric.

Getting back on topic though, I think Tuliius is sadly under developed. He's overall pretty bland and there's not much of a character arc for him. I wish they had fleshed him out more, because they truly could have made him another good figure for the game.

I thought he was a scumbag?

Have we played the same game? In my game he's always hovering over those wounded soldiers, staying behind with them while yelling at me and Ralof to get up the stairs and get out of there. So what if he doesn't talk to them those few seconds you actually spend in that tower.

If he hadn't cared he would have been out of there before you.

I think I agree almost fully with this post. Even though I do like parts of Ulfric I think when he used the Thu'um against his King when he had no way to defend against something like that, that it was dirty.

In my games he never so much as looks at them. He just stares at me. Actually, the first time I played Unbound I knelt by the soldiers to see if they were okay and he yelled at me for doing so. Not a great start to a friendship.

I think this is very true. He didn't need to use the Thu'um. He did it to remind people of what he could do. A sort of twisted kind of PR.

But that's because you're so incredibly hot, you know. He can't take his eyes off you (he does stare at you a lot in the execution scene, too, doesn't he?)

Yeah, I think Ulfric's a little psychologically scarred from his time as a POW. He really seems to have a sadistic side to him at times. Like when you've beaten Tuliius. Instead of accepting his surrender or just killing him outright, he takes his sweet time to savor the dramatic moment. Even Galmar calls him out on that one, though he seems more annoyed by his ego rather than thinking what he's doing is pretty twisted.

Humans dont work like that Im afraid.
They will stand there and watch people be carted away.
Sure, some underground movement will start to offer resistance, but the vast majority of people will simply try to get on with their lives.
They most certainly will not take to the streets with pitchforks, thats woefully overestimating human nature.

Which makes perfectly sense.


Or when he tells you how he killed Torygg. He almost sound delighted when he tells how it was his sword that "pierced his heart".

Just started a new character so I can say this:

When you follow Ralof into the tower, Ulfric is there with three Stormcloak soldiers. If you look around while Ulfric and Ralof discuss what to do, you will see that only two of the soldiers are wounded, and they are already being tended to by the third. After Ralof is gets his orders from Ulfric (which amounts basically to "get out now") and you follow him up the steps in the keep, if you listen, you will hear the soldier who was tending to the wounded say "they're hurt but they'll live," I don't know if that's the exact quote but she IS reporting on their condition and saying that they are going to make it. She must be reporting this to Ulfric because he's the only other person who was around.

So, yeah, the claim that Ulfric is standing there talking to Ralof about escaping while completely ignoring the fact some of his soldiers are dying three feet away is just nonsense. He's a military leader, he's doing what he's supposed to do; he's assessing the situation and dealing with whatever comes up. The wounded are already being cared for under his supervision when you get there, once you enter he's got a healthy soldier (Ralof) that needs to know what the plan is, the plan is basically "get out any way you can and don't worry about us." Once you are doing that he goes back to what he was probably doing before you ran in, i.e., finding out how seriously hurt the wounded are and deciding where to go from there.

And as you say, when he says "we need to move now," he doesn't follow you up and out of the keep. He stays behind with the wounded and the person tending to them and gets an update on their condition as soon as you are on your way.

And in a gazillion other encounters I've had with NPCs, they have stood there staring at me even if they are talking to or listening to other people. I've witnessed entire conversations between two or more NPCs in which none of them were talking to me and I said nothing and yet every one of them was staring at me the whole time. If you get close enough to a lot of the NPCs, they will turn and stare at you no matter who they are talking to or what is going on around them. It's programmed behavior, not characterization.

In my game, he never stared at me at all in the keep. He spoke directly to Ralof and looked at him the whole time they were talking. Which is what he should have been doing at that moment. The wounded were being tended to, I know because I turned around and watched it being done.

Egad. He's shouting at all of them to get up through the tower before the dragon demolishes it. The main objective is to get the new player to follow Ralof, so Ulfric's job is to stand there and say "up the tower! move!" The wounded in that scene are already being cared for.

I can understand taking different interpretations of game events, but this sort of nitpicky stuff that's based on gameplay convention is ridiculous. I'd say the same if people were making similar non-arguments about Tullius.

I agree that is part of it. It was an advertisemant of his suitability to be high king. I definitely think his use of the thu'um is symbolic (i.e. he didn't need it to win). However I also think it was meant to show that the Nords have power in their ancient traditions that they aren't using because their reliance on the empire has made them weak. He basically says this when you ask him about shouting and he says that anyone can learn it if they have the will and discipline. "Torygg had neither, and that was the point."

I don't see him as sadistic, rather I see someone who's willing to use calculated ruthlessness to get his job done- which is a trait you want in your leader in a violent world. He does savor the moment with Tullius, but then Tullius made a big show in Helgen, too. "And now the empire is going to PUT YOU DOWN."