[Andrew Tarango]

Sounds good, Could you possibly confirm the M1 Garand having its iconic "PING!"? :tops:

YES!!! please tell us

[Julie Ann]

If only there was a way to shorten you gun. Then I could have a pint-sized garand

[Melis Hristina]

.308 in our game's hunting rifle does the same damage as the .44 Magnum out of a trail carbine, but the .308 hunting rifle does more than .44 Magnum out of a revolver (duh). The bolt-action hunting rifle fires much more slowly than the trail carbine, but reloads its box mag more quickly than the individual rounds for the trail carbine. The hunting rifle is more accurate than the trail carbine, though that is mostly felt at very long range. After those variables are accounted for, the available ammo subtypes help further define the roles of the weapons.

"Realistically" speaking, the terminal ballistics of the .308 should be inferior to the .44 Magnum at most Fallout combat ranges but with far superior penetration. Given the stats we're working with, I felt this was a good compromise. I'm sure modders will go buck wild with the stats/ammo types, though. If you really wanted, you could build DT bypass into the default 5.56mm and .308 rounds and tank the damage more. I found in practice that this confused people even though it was ballistically more "realistic".

Gotcha. So the regular "stock" ammo won't have any modifiers, other than differences from weapon to weapon, but the ammo sub-types will carry the modifiers. Did I get that right?

[Darren]

If only there was a way to shorten you gun. Then I could have a pint-sized garand

They call that the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14. My second gun and one I wished I'd never gotten rid of.

[SiLa]

YES!!! please tell us

i would rather see a screen shot for the trail carbine

[Kelvin Diaz]

They call that the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14. My second gun and one I wished I'd never gotten rid of.

I know but it still doesn't feel the same as shooting a 30-06 M1 Garand.

[Marlo Stanfield]

.308 in our game's hunting rifle does the same damage as the .44 Magnum out of a trail carbine, but the .308 hunting rifle does more than .44 Magnum out of a revolver (duh). The bolt-action hunting rifle fires much more slowly than the trail carbine, but reloads its box mag more quickly than the individual rounds for the trail carbine. The hunting rifle is more accurate than the trail carbine, though that is mostly felt at very long range. After those variables are accounted for, the available ammo subtypes help further define the roles of the weapons.

"Realistically" speaking, the terminal ballistics of the .308 should be inferior to the .44 Magnum at most Fallout combat ranges but with far superior penetration. Given the stats we're working with, I felt this was a good compromise. I'm sure modders will go buck wild with the stats/ammo types, though. If you really wanted, you could build DT bypass into the default 5.56mm and .308 rounds and tank the damage more. I found in practice that this confused people even though it was ballistically more "realistic".

Sounds like there's a lot of depth with the "real" guns, which I love. I wonder though, will the other weapon archetypes have similar depth?

[Oceavision]

i would rather see a screen shot for the trail carbine

This gameplay video has actual screen time of the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cjr1YYT3fs watch from 4 mins 50 seconds onwards and its all Trail Carbine. :tops:

[^_^]

"Realistically" speaking, the terminal ballistics of the .308 should be inferior to the .44 Magnum at most Fallout combat ranges but with far superior penetration. Given the stats we're working with, I felt this was a good compromise. I'm sure modders will go buck wild with the stats/ammo types, though. If you really wanted, you could build DT bypass into the default 5.56mm and .308 rounds and tank the damage more. I found in practice that this confused people even though it was ballistically more "realistic".

After a cigar, a good book and the chance to mull this over in my mind for a while, I guess it boils down to a few distinct choices:

1. Completely realistic modeling where all external and terminal ballistics are accounted for. Bullet drop, decreasing velocity, yaw effect, penetration, bullet composition and design, terminal energy transfer, everything. That would be considerable overkill for this type of game. Does any game do this?

2. A middle ground where velocity matters and penetration and terminal energy are modeled to a degree. It would not have to be extremly fancy, just broken into short/med/long ranges, and terminal energy transferred to the target as the listed damage and penetration accounted for as DT bypass. Like what you expect the modders to do above.

3. Finally a "keep it simple" method where range is not considered, outside of accuracy penalties, but the damage at expected ranges is represented as close to real as possible, while not making it overly complicated and theyby confusing to the less firearm savvy player.

I can see why the last solution would be the most desirable for the broadest spectrum of players. I'm not in the habit of using mods, but if someone does make a mod that accomplishes solution 2, I might just have to give it a shot. I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I think it would be interesting to see just how far we can go with realistic ballistics given the game mechanics you've given us.

[Kate Norris]

1. Completely realistic modeling where all external and terminal ballistics are accounted for. Bullet drop, decreasing velocity, yaw effect, penetration, bullet composition and design, terminal energy transfer, everything. That would be considerable overkill for this type of game. Does any game do this?

I'm not sure if any game ever has taken it this far. Closest I've heard about was easily 10 years ago, I never played it and don't even recall the name- but it was some sort of sniper game I think, where you actually had to take into account elevation adjustments based on range and windage based on current wind conditions and adjust your scope accordingly. And even then I think that was the extent of the "deep realism": dealing with accuracy adjustments based on range and wind. Depending on how much else might be going on in-game at any moment, I'm not even really sure how feasible it would be- because even with simplification and pre-calculated tables, that's a lot of calculations for a single shot if it's handling much else at the same time. Imagine a couple of quick sniper shots in a system like this- along with AI for every active NPC/actor in a map cell, weather, lighting, etc. Potential "Ouch" factor. Might be why even "that much" was in a sniper scenario- to minimize "whatever else" had to be dealt with and free up processor cycles for all the computations. :shrug:

Yeesh, come to think it could get daunting though...consider velocity loss at range alone- accounting for muzzle velocity, then air resistance based on bullet shape (as in full wadcutter vs round .45 ACP-type ball ammo vs spitzer type ball ammo vs boat-tail spitzer, etc.) then mass, then...and on and on.

The other big thing I wonder about is possible limitations imposed by draw distance. What's the farthest away we can even see a target? I'm thinking a .308 (modeled realistically) is effective at ranges beyond what we can even see in-game, and if so then there's nothing in-game that would even be beyond "short" range for a .50 BMG round, ya think?

[FirDaus LOVe farhana]

I'm not sure if any game ever has taken it this far. Closest I've heard about was easily 10 years ago, I never played it and don't even recall the name- but it was some sort of sniper game I think, where you actually had to take into account elevation adjustments based on range and windage based on current wind conditions and adjust your scope accordingly. And even then I think that was the extent of the "deep realism": dealing with accuracy adjustments based on range and wind. Depending on how much else might be going on in-game at any moment, I'm not even really sure how feasible it would be- because even with simplification and pre-calculated tables, that's a lot of calculations for a single shot if it's handling much else at the same time. Imagine a couple of quick sniper shots in a system like this- along with AI for every active NPC/actor in a map cell, weather, lighting, etc. Potential "Ouch" factor. Might be why even "that much" was in a sniper scenario- to minimize "whatever else" had to be dealt with and free up processor cycles for all the computations. :shrug:

Yeesh, come to think it could get daunting though...consider velocity loss at range alone- accounting for muzzle velocity, then air resistance based on bullet shape (as in full wadcutter vs round .45 ACP-type ball ammo vs spitzer type ball ammo vs boat-tail spitzer, etc.) then mass, then...and on and on.

The other big thing I wonder about is possible limitations imposed by draw distance. What's the farthest away we can even see a target? I'm thinking a .308 (modeled realistically) is effective at ranges beyond what we can even see in-game, and if so then there's nothing in-game that would even be beyond "short" range for a .50 BMG round, ya think?

Anybody know if ARMA did any of this stuff? I remember is was pretty crappy graphics but ran like oozing mud on my old machine. There had to be some reason.


You would have to model certain "stock" ammo types to cut down on the number of variables. I'm not sure there would be all that many calculations involved, at least if you limited some of those variables. Of course I don't know crap about programming. Math good. Programming bad.

I have no idea what the draw distance is in real terms at max draw distance in FO3. I don't remember any foorball fields to use as a comparitive means. I did try walking to the end of my draw distance once, but never got there...............

[Fam Mughal]

I have two quick questions for Josh Sawyer:

1. How will ammunition be reloaded? In one of the E3 videos it was mentioned that you'd use spent shell casings, but due to the limitations of many game engines (including FO3's) shell casings simply disappear after 2 or 3 seconds. Will they stay for longer periods of time and be collectable or will we just be converting unspent "regular" ammunition into special ammunition? I won't mind either way, but that's pretty impractical in real life.

2. Is the hole in the Varmint Rifle's stock meant to be a thumbhole? The animations in the X Play preview didn't acknowledge it and it looks too low to be used as a thumbhole anyway, ergonomically speaking.

[James Wilson]

You would have to model certain "stock" ammo types to cut down on the number of variables. I'm not sure there would be all that many calculations involved, at least if you limited some of those variables. Of course I don't know crap about programming. Math good. Programming bad.

Math okay, basic programming decent here. Advanced programming tricks, I make a damn fine TV Evangelist at. But yes, for game use they'd get into tricks like "lookup tables" with pre-calculated values for things. "Bullet in weight range X to Y with muzzle velocity Z uses column B for velocity loss over distance" sort of things.

I have no idea what the draw distance is in real terms at max draw distance in FO3. I don't remember any foorball fields to use as a comparitive means. I did try walking to the end of my draw distance once, but never got there...............

I've run into that same problem with the horizon in the real world. Drove 65 MPH for 12 hours once, still didn't get there- almost like it kept moving away from me or something. LOL

But I don't think the "actor" draw distance (I think "actor" is the term I'm after), even set to max, is nearly far enough to tax the effective range of a high-powered rifle in-game. Try approaching Tenpenny Tower from the south, and see how close you have to get before you can see Roy Phillips out front. Then size up a window and back off until you'd think it would be tricky to take out someone standing on that windowsill.

[Danii Brown]

I have two quick questions for Josh Sawyer:

1. How will ammunition be reloaded? In one of the E3 videos it was mentioned that you'd use spent shell casings, but due to the limitations of many game engines (including FO3's) shell casings simply disappear after 2 or 3 seconds. Will they stay for longer periods of time and be collectable or will we just be converting unspent "regular" ammunition into special ammunition? I won't mind either way, but that's pretty impractical in real life.

All ammo types have a specified item (typically a weightless misc. object case or hull) and a percentage chance of being generated per ammo consumed. For example, Ammo556mm may generate Case556mm 25% of the time. These cases are put directly into your inventory without notification. Surprise! Free cases (for the price of shooting ammunition).

2. Is the hole in the Varmint Rifle's stock meant to be a thumbhole? The animations in the X Play preview didn't acknowledge it and it looks too low to be used as a thumbhole anyway, ergonomically speaking.

Yes, it is intended to be a thumbhole though the animations use the standard rifle grip (which also forced the thumbhole into a non-ergo position). The thumbhole is just there as a cosmetic differentiation from other rifles.

[Euan]

All ammo types have a specified item (typically a weightless misc. object case or hull) and a percentage chance of being generated per ammo consumed. For example, Ammo556mm may generate Case556mm 25% of the time. These cases are put directly into your inventory without notification. Surprise! Free cases (for the price of shooting ammunition).

Will the player be able to crawl into the casing for added protection?

[Mark Churchman]

weapon mods I hope to see

sturdy frame: increase item health

foldable stock/light frame: This mod lessens the weight of the weapon and also brings down the Str requirement by 1, due to the lightweight frame it has less item health.

@Arkayer : if it was a big enough artillery shell maybe.

[Kit Marsden]

weapon mods I hope to see

foldable stock/light frame: This mod lessens the weight of the weapon and also brings down the Str requirement by 1, due to the lightweight frame it has less item health.

I hope we'll get a folding stock modification for the M1 Garand. I'm very much in love with the M14 EBR and something like http://www.reesesurplus.com/images/M14-Folding-stock.gif would be a nice compromise between the two.

[Nicola]

i want the jesus pistol

[Amiee Kent]

All ammo types have a specified item (typically a weightless misc. object case or hull) and a percentage chance of being generated per ammo consumed. For example, Ammo556mm may generate Case556mm 25% of the time. These cases are put directly into your inventory without notification. Surprise! Free cases (for the price of shooting ammunition).

Yes, it is intended to be a thumbhole though the animations use the standard rifle grip (which also forced the thumbhole into a non-ergo position). The thumbhole is just there as a cosmetic differentiation from other rifles.

I can dig it, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

I have to say also, my inner gun nut really wants to buy you a beer right now... :foodndrink:

[Kahli St Dennis]

My question for sawyer would be on energy weapons. How do they work vs armor in fo nv? In fo1-3 you generaly could count on just a laser pistol for a good half the game.. but then you HAD to;/ Has it changed for new vegas?

On a related note can we please get different colored laser beams and plasma balls and such? I cant quite put into words just how annoying always red lasers are.. mainly because id be banned for eternity....

[Kitana Lucas]

If there are manufactured compound or home-made bows, I'll be a happy man.

[Jessica Stokes]

All ammo types have a specified item (typically a weightless misc. object case or hull) and a percentage chance of being generated per ammo consumed. For example, Ammo556mm may generate Case556mm 25% of the time. These cases are put directly into your inventory without notification. Surprise! Free cases (for the price of shooting ammunition).


Yes, it is intended to be a thumbhole though the animations use the standard rifle grip (which also forced the thumbhole into a non-ergo position). The thumbhole is just there as a cosmetic differentiation from other rifles.

So long as I dont have to sit there and "hose off" ammo when I want to make my own and have a metric butload of "droped" ammo that I will never use

[Lucky Boy]

Will the player be able to crawl into the casing for added protection?

http://media.photobucket.com/image/520%20mm%20Artillery%20Shell/NS_Crossbowman/Dora_train_artillery_by_floydworx.jpg you might be able to crawl inside of the Artillery Shells this thing lobbed during WWI and WWII.

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/ypres-salient/images/big-bertha-shell.jpg also http://www.nzmr.org/images3/eccles_dud.jpg

[Laura Mclean]

My question for sawyer would be on energy weapons. How do they work vs armor in fo nv? In fo1-3 you generaly could count on just a laser pistol for a good half the game.. but then you HAD to;/ Has it changed for new vegas?

On a related note can we please get different colored laser beams and plasma balls and such? I cant quite put into words just how annoying always red lasers are.. mainly because id be banned for eternity....

I'm wondering about the energy weapons too. In the originals, laser weapons worked just fine up until power armor started showing up and then they became pretty useless because of the 80 or so % resistance. How many laser weapons are there even going to be? I loved using them in Fallout 3, but there were only 3 laser weapons, 2 if you're not counting the misplaced Gatling Laser.

[Milagros Osorio]

Math okay, basic programming decent here. Advanced programming tricks, I make a damn fine TV Evangelist at. But yes, for game use they'd get into tricks like "lookup tables" with pre-calculated values for things. "Bullet in weight range X to Y with muzzle velocity Z uses column B for velocity loss over distance" sort of things.

Then size up a window and back off until you'd think it would be tricky to take out someone standing on that windowsill.

Thats pretty much how I thought things worked. Do the ballistics table right, make the modifiers right and it doesn't seem to me to be a lot of number crunching. At least not the kind to slow down modern processors.

I'll try the window shot at max draw distance. But first, does anyone know what the magnification is on the Sniper Rifle scope in FO3? Surely there's a figure in the Geck, right?

Yes, it is intended to be a thumbhole though the animations use the standard rifle grip (which also forced the thumbhole into a non-ergo position). The thumbhole is just there as a cosmetic differentiation from other rifles.

I wonder it adding the correct animation was too resource (both human and computing power) heavy. Surely the animators and body mesh designers could have done it right, but was it deemed not worth the neccessary effect for such a small detail?

So long as I dont have to sit there and "hose off" ammo when I want to make my own and have a metric butload of "droped" ammo that I will never use

I rather doubt the devs would be stupid enough to make that the only way to acquire brass. Common sense tells you that it will be available, at least in some quantity, at vendors. Why would they make a broken mechanic? "Ugh, must buy bullits. Must shoot bullits. Must pick up shiney things (simulated). Goodie! I can make more bullits!"

I'm wondering about the energy weapons too. In the originals, laser weapons worked just fine up until power armor started showing up and then they became pretty useless because of the 80 or so % resistance. How many laser weapons are there even going to be? I loved using them in Fallout 3, but there were only 3 laser weapons, 2 if you're not counting the misplaced Gatling Laser.

How many weapons can you really get out of the current types available?
Laser - pistol, rifle, shotgun, machinegun. All there is left is an SMG.
Plasma - pistol, rifle, and what ever Multi-Plas is. How do you make a plasma machinegun?
Flame - flame pistols?
Are there any other ways to hurt a carbon life form with energy? Not including ballistic weapons and melee/unarmed. Maybe things like the Shock sword, shock wand and Shishkabob should be energy weapons, not melee. How about sonic energy? Particle beams? Freezing?